Evidence of meeting #142 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was atssc.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Graham Fraser  Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Marie-France Pelletier  Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to present a notice of motion. It is a notice of motion, because I have decided to change the motion I introduced 48 hours ago. We can debate it at our next meeting, next Tuesday.

It reads as follows:

That the Committee call on the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to reverse its decision, effective April 1, 2019, to end unilingual francophone training at its academy, Depot Division in Saskatchewan.

I hereby give notice of this motion.

I will use these final seconds to thank you for appearing today, Mr. Fraser. Thank you also for the excellent work you have done and are certainly going to continue to do for the benefit of the Canadian duality.

12:15 p.m.

Senior Fellow, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Graham Fraser

Thank you very much.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you very much for your presentation this morning, Mr. Fraser. I hope your retirement continues to be a happy one.

I will suspend the session for a few minutes.

Thank you very much.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

We now resume the session.

I would like to welcome Marie-France Pelletier, Chief Administrator of the Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada.

We will listen to your presentation and then, as usual, we will go round the table.

12:20 p.m.

Marie-France Pelletier Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Thank you very much.

Thank you for this opportunity to appear before you today on the matter of official languages.

I'd like to begin by briefly describing the role and mandate of the Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada, or ATSSC, which was established on November 1, 2014, with the coming into force of the ATSSC Act.

The ATSSC is responsible for providing support services and facilities to 11 federal administrative tribunals by way of a single integrated organization. The goal in creating our organization in 2014 was to pull the resources of several smaller tribunals into a larger organization, the ATSSC. This would allow the ATSSC to better leverage the resources at its disposal to help meet the needs that have long been identified by tribunals, which they did not have the capacity to address within their own limited budgets and staff complement.

Our purpose is to improve capacity to meet the needs of the tribunals, achieve efficiencies through economies of scale and improve access to justice for Canadians.

The 11 tribunals supported by the ATSSC represent a portion of the nearly 30 federal administrative tribunals and are generally small organizations that vary in size from approximately three to 100 full-time and part-time members. Their mandates are varied, spanning a vast array of societal activity from commerce to the administration of monetary penalties in certain sectors, to international trade, human and indigenous rights, social programs, labour relations, protection of whistle-blowers and the protection of cultural assets.

The ATSSC also supports the National Joint Council, which is a forum for co-development, consultation and information between the Treasury Board of Canada in its role as an employer and public service bargaining agents.

The Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada, or ATSSC, reports to Parliament through the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, but it operates at arm's length from the Department of Justice.

In terms of our work, we provide the specialized services required by each of the tribunals to support the registry, research and analysis, legal and other mandate-specific or case-specific activities.

As well, we provide the tribunals with internal services, such as human resources, financial services, information management and technology, accommodations, security, planning and communications, and all support services.

On a day-to-day basis, tribunal members work with ATSSC employees who assist them with case files, editing decisions, making travel arrangements for hearings, and a number of other tasks required by the tribunal members in the course of their work.

The chairpersons of the 11 tribunals served by the ATSSC have supervision over, and direction of, the work of their respective tribunals.

By providing support services and facilities, the ATSSC enables the tribunals to exercise their individual powers and perform their unique duties and functions in accordance with their respective legislation, rules and regulations.

We actively work with the tribunals to identify improvements to the systems, services and processes the ATSSC provides to them. We are committed to ensuring that appropriate resources are available to support the tribunals' operational processes and caseload management.

Our workforce includes approximately 600 employees, the majority of whom are located in the national capital region. The organization also supports approximately 200 Governor in Council appointees who are the members of the 11 administrative tribunals.

The year 2019 marks an important milestone for the ATSSC as the organization is celebrating its fifth year in operation.

Looking ahead, the ATSSC is focused on providing the best possible service to the tribunals that we serve by championing a culture of service excellence, innovation and continuous improvement. In particular, the ATSSC will work to improve the digital capabilities of the tribunals by establishing new and improving existing case management systems. We will also continue to grow and sustain a healthy and respectful workplace that supports personal well-being, career development and continuous learning for our employees. Additionally, we will continue to assess and hone our service standards and delivery models to achieve even greater efficiencies in our business practices while preserving our commitment to excellence.

Now that I have provided a brief overview of the ATSSC, I would like to share some information about tribunal models and some general cost considerations related to operating administrative tribunals.

As I mentioned previously, the mandates of the 11 administrative tribunals supported by the ATSSC vary widely, from those that handle the appeals of administrative monetary penalties, to others that deal with matters directed to them by a referring body—the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, for example, which hears complaints referred to it by the Canadian Human Rights Commission.

Each tribunal has a unique mandate and fulfils very specific purposes. For example, the Canadian Cultural Property and Export Review Board reviews applications for certification of Canadian cultural property. The Specific Claims Tribunal hears cases on indigenous land claims. Both the Canadian Industrial Relations Board and the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board deal with a variety of labour relations matters.

As such, the ATSSC must provide resources that correspond to the nature, scope and complexity of cases dealt with by each tribunal, as well as each tribunal's caseload. A number of tribunals the ATSSC supports have caseloads that surpass several thousand cases per year, such as, for example, the Social Security Tribunal and the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations and Employment Board.

Also, cases come before tribunals in various ways, for example through applications, complaints, appeals and references, or they may be referred by another body. Matters are adjudicated, and in some cases, there is also a focus on providing mediation assistance at all stages of a proceeding.

Given these considerations, the costs to operate an administrative tribunal can vary greatly depending upon the tribunal's prescribed mandate and expected caseload. There are also costs for back office functions such as finance, human resources, etc., or case management system expenditures and a number of different support services that the tribunals need from time to time.

In reflection of these factors, the annual budgets of the administrative tribunals the ATSSC supports range from approximately $225,000 a year to up to about $28 million a year.

In terms of overall operating expenditures for the ATSSC, our total main estimates for 2019-20 are $92 million. These funds support the wide-ranging services that the ATSSC provides to the 11 tribunals. Approximately $68 million, or 74%, of these funds are dedicated to the core responsibilities that directly support the tribunal mandates, while the remaining $24 million, or 26%, is allotted to internal service operations.

The ATSSC closely monitors its budget to ensure that we are able to meet the needs of the tribunals. This includes monitoring emerging trends to determine their potential impact on tribunal caseloads, monitoring legislative changes to assess their impact, and ensuring that budget planning and allocations have built-in flexibility to appropriately allocate the resources if and where required.

Mr. Chair, that concludes my remarks. I will be happy to answer questions from the members of the committee.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you for your presentation, Ms. Pelletier.

Without further delay, I give the floor to Mr. Clarke.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Pelletier, good afternoon, and thank you for joining us today.

I invited you because I wanted to hear from an expert. You are one because you are the head of the Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada.

I want to make sure that I fully understood. You said earlier that there are from three to 100 members. Is that in your service or in each of the tribunals?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

In each of the tribunals. Our smallest tribunal has three members and the biggest can have up to 100 members.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

I am sure you understand that we invited you here because we are studying the possibility of an administrative tribunal devoted exclusively to the official languages.

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

How many member judges would an official languages tribunal require, in your opinion, based on an equivalent tribunal?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

I can give you a general answer. It is important to understand, much as I explained in my remarks, that the functions, the mandate and therefore the resources, both human and financial, are influenced by the very nature of the mandate conferred on the tribunal. That comes from its enabling legislation.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Since the mandate does not exist in this case, it is very difficult for you to give us any figures.

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

I could give you an idea of the size.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Yes, exactly.

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

However, if you ever create a tribunal and entrust it to us, we will conduct our own analysis before you make a decision.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

I understand, and you're really not committed to anything today. That being said, could you give us an idea of the size?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

I am aware that there has been a lot of discussion about a comparison with the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, in particular. That model seems to be of interest to some. Let me point out, with respect to this model, that the Canadian Human Rights Commission receives approximately 1,100 complaints per year and refers an average of between 5% and 10% of them to the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. Under this model, the tribunal currently operates with a dozen members. Some work full time, others part time, and they are all over the country.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

How much does that tribunal cost Canadians per year?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

We invest $3.7 million a year in actually operating the tribunal. It is important to keep in mind that this does not include the administrative costs for support services. Those must therefore be added in. So the $3.7 million only covers the tribunal's operations and the services provided directly to the tribunal by employees with expertise in the area.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you very much, Ms. Pelletier.

I will now venture into an area with which I am not very familiar: direct access and indirect access. Would the Commissioner of Official Languages give the green light or determine that an individual may apply directly to the tribunal? How do things work on the human rights side?

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

It is a reference body. The Canadian Human Rights Commission reviews the complaints that it receives. In a number of cases, as I understand it—and they should be asked to provide you with more details on this issue—the complaints are predominantly resolved through mediation at the commission. That is why, as I said, about 5% to 10% of the complaints received by the commission are subsequently transferred to the tribunal.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

My understanding is that some administrative tribunals are not under your supervision. In fact, the word “supervision” is probably not the proper word, since your role is essentially one of support. In short, I would like to know why those tribunals are not your responsibility.

12:30 p.m.

Chief Administrator, Administrative Tribunals Support Service of Canada

Marie-France Pelletier

The decision was made when our organization was created. I personally did not participate in those discussions and I was not informed of the reasons.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

If an administrative tribunal were to be created within the next few months, what would you advise the government? As the present leader, would you advise the government to include the tribunal in your organization?