Evidence of meeting #23 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
No, that would take much more time, and we don't have the capacity to do it. As you know, hundreds of thousands of people apply each year. It would be impossible for us to operate that way.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
In minority environments? Hundreds of thousands...
9:50 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It would be nice.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
We're looking for a team that focuses only on that.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We would still have to—
9:50 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
If it were the case, we would also have to do it in English. We would not be able to administer the tests in French only.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
To go back to what my friend Mr. Samson was saying, the problem of getting a team does not arise with English. It's not where the resources are needed.
9:50 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, but if we did that, the Commissioner of Official Languages would immediately ask us why we're offering the service to francophones, and not to anglophones.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
It would be to correct the injustice and inequality from the standpoint of the Official Languages Act, or to standardize things in some way. It seems to me that it would be so easy to standardize, but I'm saying that as a casual observer.
9:50 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
The objective would be to provide equal services, equivalent to those of the organization that administers the IELTS test in English, worldwide. There are similar tests in English, such as the TOEFL, which is very popular in the United States. At a certain price point, this would probably be possible. Those tests are administered in hundreds of cities throughout the world.
If there were testing centres in hundreds of cities worldwide, including countries where there are few francophone candidates, the unit cost would be very high. It's not that the government would be unable to do it, but that the cost would be enormous.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Has your team assessed the magnitude of those costs?
9:50 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We don't have the numbers because, from the outset, we have encouraged other organizations to make us proposals for preparing the test. We've been in talks with those organizations for a few years. We're encouraging the TEF organization to offer its services. We're encouraging the people to change their pricing system.
Large business organizations administer these tests for many reasons other than Canadian immigration. For example, they use the tests for university admission purposes throughout the world. It's worth nothing that the level of services varies a great deal depending on the country, and naturally, companies that do a lot of business in one country, and less in another, organize the frequency of their tests, and the testing sites, based on that.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
We were talking about immigration in minority environments. At least that's what I'd like to discuss, whether it be anglophones in Quebec or francophones outside Quebec. I'm in the latter group. Is there no way to standardize a test for linguistic minorities who are based in majority communities? Here is a suggestion. What about standardizing the test by working with the embassies of the countries the applicants come from, and to send the written test to your office in Canada, or the office of someone under your jurisdiction, for analysis, whether it be in French or English?
It would be standardized, accessibility would be uniform, and official languages would be respected. I am talking about the minority context, that is to say, anglophones who'd like to settle in Quebec, francophones who'd like to settle outside Quebec, or a few anglophones who'd like to settle in northern New Brunswick, where the population is homogeneously francophone to some extent. In my view, it would be simple and affordable.
9:55 a.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It would be extremely expensive. We have organized tests in embassies. It takes a group of experts, a security team, people to administer the tests, and so forth, throughout the world. And it should be borne in mind that there are many countries with no Canadian embassy.
In short, we are well aware that this is a problem. We're determined to fix it, but it's complex. It takes time, and will probably take money. Officials can prepare options and present them to the government, and we're in the middle of doing that. But the solutions are complex and costly.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
I understand what you're saying, Mr. Manicom. I'm naive, and I hope you'll forgive me.
Your way of addressing the situation is to delegate to other bodies the responsibility for providing the service. As for me, I'm talking to you about other ways of helping people who want to settle in a minority community. That can't be too many people.
9:55 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We're also trying to say that the fact that they can't take the test where they want, at a reasonable price, in no way prevents them from settling in a francophone minority community. That's not at all what prevents them from doing that. People have the right to go where they want, regardless of which exam they wrote so that they—
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to follow up on the same subject. If the test isn't what's preventing people from coming to Canada, what's the purpose of the test?
