Evidence of meeting #23 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was tests.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Christine Holke
Lucie Lecomte  Committee Researcher
David Manicom  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Corinne Prince-St-Amand  Director General, Integration and Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Stefanie Beck  Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Donald Cochrane  Senior Director, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

10 a.m.

Liberal

Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB

That's what we want to do with this.

10 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

It's part of our discussions with the provinces. We will be having a ministerial meeting with the people in Manitoba in a few weeks, and francophone immigration outside Quebec will certainly be on the agenda.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mr. Vandal and Mr. Manicom.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Mr. Chair, I'd just like to add that I've spoken with the Premier of Nova Scotia, and he told me his province has a strategy for francophones on the subject.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

Ms. Boucher, you have the floor.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank the witnesses for being here with us today.

I find this interesting, but rather complex. Like Mr. Arseneault, I have all kinds of solutions.

The French test that immigrants are asked to undergo is from Europe, isn't it? The Test d'évaluation de français, or TEF?

10 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

Yes, the TEF is from Paris.

10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Stefanie Beck

That's correct.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Has anyone here had the opportunity to take the test? I took it, and it was extremely difficult, even for a Canadian.

I'd like to make a special request. Could you send the TEF to this committee so we can see what the questions are like? I'm from Quebec. Sometimes, fellow citizens tell me it's very difficult to pass that test. I am very good in French, and I had a hard time.

Is the Quebec test the same as the TEF? Is there a specific test for Quebec?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

We have done—

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Mr. Manicom, could you provide the clerk with a copy of the test in response to Ms. Boucher's request?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

Yes, but I would like to clarify something about our points system. For both the French test and the English test, linguistic experts establish equivalencies in relation to Canadian standards. Accordingly, a grade of x on the TEF is equivalent to a grade ofy under Canadian standards.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

In other words, Canada's specificity is incorporated into it.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

We do a translation, but I know that the equivalency, as far as the TEF is concerned, is complicated.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

I know, yes.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

It's why we have a group of language experts that gives its opinion on these questions, and helps us determine how many points must be granted to people as immigrants.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Could we see this test?

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

Yes, of course.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

That would be nice.

Thanks to an immigrant from my riding, I had the opportunity to take the test at one point, and can assure you that it wore me out.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

So the test has a specifically Canadian element.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

Yes. We receive the same complaints about the English test.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

It might be a good idea for us to have a look at the English test too. I find the reason the English test is less expensive than the French one problematic.

10:05 a.m.

Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

It's because of the number of people who take the test.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

So there are more people who take the test in English.