Official Languages Committee on Oct. 6th, 2016

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

I am going to share my speaking time with my colleague Darrell Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Lefebvre.

Thank you and good morning, everyone.

I appreciate what you said about the past 10 years. A considerable effort has been made to enhance the vitality of the communities, and suddenly some of them realize they have additional needs. Some areas have not received increased funding under the roadmap for 10 years, and I believe that is causing some very serious problems across the country.

Furthermore, if I correctly understood, accountability is important for you, so that you know where the money intended for the province and, ultimately, for your organizations, is going.

With regard to immigration, I will quickly review the issues.

You talked about tests, a very important point. That was raised by the IRCC. I believe it is important to note the points you have made in our report. If I correctly understood, you said that the tests were difficult, that they cost far too much, and that the distances that had to be travelled to take them were a problem.

The second question, for which I would like a very brief answer—

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Samson, could you hold that question for later?

We are immediately going to the second round, which is about immigration. We have somewhat covered the immigration issue during this first part, but we are going to ask the people from Alberta to make their presentation and to discuss this matter with us.

Ms. Meddri, if you wish, you may take a few minutes to complete your presentation on immigration.

For the moment, I will turn the floor over to Mr. Johnson.

[Jean Johnson]

Thank you very much.

First of all, I want to reiterate that it is important and necessary to have services by and for francophones and to match those services with our community's organizations and institutions. Our community has had to fight and fend for itself over the years due to a lack of government services in many sectors. As a result, it has established francophone organizations and institutions designed to meet its own needs.

It is important that the programs and services developed to meet the needs of francophone immigrants be offered by our community and that they be consistent with our community architecture, if we genuinely want to carry out our twofold mandate and ensure that francophone immigration genuinely helps enhance our vitality.

When the IRCC's decisions do not take into account our existing structures and services, that weakens our services and community. In many instances, we feel the processes and decisions made undermine the community by excluding certain sectors of the community from the discussions, in particular its representative organization. We are there to support and encourage the empowerment of our community organizations. If something has to be done, government representatives should be not an obstacle, but rather a factor in the empowerment of those organizations, as we are for them.

A flexible approach must also be taken to the criteria applied. Some immigrants, such as temporary foreign workers and international students, are not eligible for certain services. The problem is that those immigrants do not receive first-hand information and fall victim to biased information given to them by people who who have not necessarily gone through our community's services, which is very harmful.

Canada has recently taken in a large number of Syrian refugees. Our community would like to be able to play a role with francophone refugees who are currently being served by anglophone institutions.

We would like our francophone welcome centres in Alberta to be accredited to take in government-sponsored francophone refugees. This is being done in Manitoba, but that is not the case in Alberta.

We have made a conscious choice to build a diverse French-language community. The ACFA has for many years coordinated the RIF, a mechanism financed by the IRCC, whose purpose is to promote joint action and cooperation with various players operating in francophone immigration in our province. If the department funds that mechanism, its call for tenders should be consistent with it and help advance our community plan for francophone immigration and community life.

In summer 2015, a call for tenders that was issued caused a crisis in our community. We have to stop creating mechanisms that divide the community. Our present situation was established by the department. A clear division is occurring within the community, especially in the Calgary region, and that should not be happening.

We are in favour of empowerment, we are responsible for ourselves, and we develop strategies together. I consider it highly offensive that the policies administered by the department's regional representatives should interfere in this process and dictate how we conduct our activities.

Agreements negotiation should be a process that accommodates the community's desire to take charge of itself and set its own priorities. Priorities should not be imposed on us, particularly since we do not even know where they come from.

The reality of the communities varies from province to province. Consequently, we should stop applying catch-all solutions to all regions of the country. It is ridiculous for anyone to espouse that philosophy. We would like these agreements to respect the communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

Ms. Meddri, you have two minutes if you wish to add something.

[Salwa Meddri]

We can never overemphasize the words “by” and “for”; they are very important, even essential. They are our rallying cry. When newcomers receive French-language services from a francophone organization, it makes a difference. The act of directing them to other francophone services will also strengthen their attachment to the francophone communities. And I mean “communities”, because there are many in Manitoba, and they are all equally important. We must retain these newcomers in our francophone communities and provide them with services in the language of their choice and in the commonly used language. This is extremely important, and we can never repeat it enough.

I mentioned temporary workers and international students, but I would also like to emphasize that there is a kind of ambiguity, as it were, in the pre-arrival services that are provided, particularly in Manitoba, by an anglophone organization. In this particular case, that organization has established a French-language service for immigration applicants to provide them with information and orientation sessions concerning the province. That is very good. We have begun negotiations and discussions with that organization to have it refer francophone candidates who come to settle in Manitoba to local francophone organizations in the community. However, there is no guarantee the organization will do so, since it also offers a full range of settlement services and has the opportunity to serve all classes of newcomers, once again, in English.

This imbalance in the assistance and funding of solid, well-established organizations harms francophone organizations. It vastly undermines our ability to do our work. I can only reiterate and support the remarks Mr. Johnson made.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Meddri.

With our remaining time, we will have a three-minute round of questions.

Ms. Boucher, you have the floor.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here so early this morning.

I am going to ask two questions about aspects that concern me.

Mr. Johnson, you said that the francophone population is growing astronomically in Alberta but that, at the same time, you lack manpower. Can you explain to me why that is the case when we are taking in so many people? Earlier the lady beside you said she was lacking manpower. I would like to understand that.

My question concerns your francophone centre. You would like it to be recognized as an organization that takes in refugees and as a stakeholder, like the organization in Manitoba. Who recognizes the centres, the province or the federal government?

[Jean Johnson]

That currently depends on financial capacity.

As regards employability, it is very simple: we have no money to hire people. We have qualified people who could provide services, but that is not possible. We are caught in an impossible situation. The francophone population is increasing, but we cannot provide services due to a lack of financial resources. We have a lot of people who have skills and could benefit our communities, but we do not have adequate resources, and that is really unfortunate.

I would like to add something on the importance of the words “by” and “for”. An anglophone agency will often say it offers services in French. There is a major distinction to be made here. People are welcomed in French, but the conversation switches to English shortly thereafter. People are welcomed and then all the services are provided in English. They tell these people, “No problem, we'll look after you,” but then they are placed in an anglophone context. Can we stop doing that? I think it is really harmful.

I would like to say something else. I apologize for the passion I put into this, but this is often what we feel back home. The federal government departments must take on a responsibility. At one point, we asked for assistance to support the efforts of the people who are arriving in Quebec, for example. They make a request to the intake and settlement centre, except that they are not eligible for the services based on the funding of those organizations. So we try to find resources, but, as soon as we contact another department, they refer us elsewhere saying this is IRCC's business. There is a total disconnect from reality, and it is becoming very frustrating to try to manage it.

If you ask the communities what they will do, we will have a list of items concerning operational efficiency, but all departments must be engaged. This is everyone's business.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I have a request for you, Mr. Johnson.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Just a moment, Ms. Boucher. We said we would try to limit ourselves to three minutes for this round.

Now let us go right away to Mr. Samson, who had a question earlier and whom I interrupted.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Could you provide us with that list?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Johnson, could you send us the list through the committee clerk?

[Jean Johnson]

It would be a pleasure for us to send you the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

[Inaudible] It should be the regions, the school boards, and the communities that set their priorities, and there should be some flexibility in that regard. That is what I understand from your presentation.

I will finish my question. Ms. Meddri, you said that arriving immigrants have the option to take French courses but that English courses are compulsory.

Could you say more on that point?

[Salwa Meddri]

Since I live in a province and in a minority community, I want to say that English is a necessary evil. People are required to take English courses. Depending on the system, when immigrants arrive in Manitoba and are eligible for services, they are taken in, as it were, by a francophone organization for settlement purposes, but they have to go through two organizations.

There is the entry program, which gives orientation sessions over four weeks in intensive English. Then they are eligible for the language assessment test in order to meet the standard, or benchmark, so they can learn English based on their level and the direction they subsequently want to take.

That is not the case for French. It is optional and not important since the Université de Saint-Boniface receives funding to offer French courses to newcomers up to a certain level. However, the number of spaces is very limited. The number of newcomers who may benefit from the program is limited.

If immigrants are allophones, which is the case of the Syrian refugees, they are offered French literacy programs so they can learn English or pursue any direction they want in life. Unfortunately, they are told to take English so they can get a job, have a career, and so on. In essence, French is neglected.

That effort even goes so far as to influence parents' decision whether to register their children at a French-language school. They come here with the preconceived notion that, if their children go to a francophone school, they will never learn English. The francophone settlement services and the people in the field constantly explain to them that children have an ability to learn and adapt and that, at some point, they will "catch" English. They also explain to them that giving their children or any person a chance to be bilingual will set them up for success in all fields.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

It is strange to hear that because, last week, the department told us in its presentation that people are targeted just to further francophone immigration.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you.

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for both groups.

We know that minority francophone immigration targets are 4.4% for Canada as a whole. What are the targets of Alberta and Manitoba? Are you hitting those targets? If not, what could you do to achieve them in each of your provinces?

The Mobilité francophone program, previously the francophone significant benefit program, was restored this summer, or in June. We have heard that it is very difficult to start it back up because businesses are no longer inclined to use it since they have to start over from scratch and have somewhat lost confidence in that tool.

The Alberta people may start answering, and then it will be Ms. Meddri's turn.

[Jean Johnson]

With regard to the 4.4% target, Alberta is not that invested in recruitment. Over the past 10 or 15 years, the Alberta economy, which has changed in recent years, has attracted people. Consequently, primary immigration helped achieve that 4.4% target. Secondary immigration also helped achieve it. I am talking about the people who settled in Quebec for a while and then came to Alberta for economic reasons.

What is interesting is that we are still seeing an increase in that migration and in that immigration to Alberta for the same reasons, despite the fact that Alberta's economy has declined. That puts us in quite an interesting position. The economic decline is causing a rising influx of newcomers.

As for the Mobilité francophone program, the private sector has definitely lost confidence in it. After the Harper government cancelled the program, a natural conflict arose between employers and employees. We had to commission labour market impact studies and so on. That put employers and employees in a position of conflict. Consequently, people are not convinced that restoring the program is really beneficial.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

I turn the floor over to one final speaker, Ms. Lapointe.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning and welcome to the witnesses. Thank you for being with us here this morning.

Ms. Meddri, earlier you said that francophone immigrant retention is quite high in your province. Can you quantify that?

[Salwa Meddri]

There are no specific figures on that. However, I can say that quite a large number of interprovincial migrants seek intake and settlement services when they are in the community. That is an initial indicator that gives us an idea of the retention rate. There are also international students and temporary workers who wind up staying in Manitoba

We currently have no such figures, but we are working on that. They will give us an evaluation tool to determine the efficiency of our programs and what specific aspects need improving.