Evidence of meeting #58 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was catsa.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ghislaine Saikaley  Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Pascale Giguère  Director and General Counsel, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Mary Donaghy  Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Jean Marleau  Acting Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

I would go a bit further. Earlier, my colleague Mr. Samson talked about Air Canada. I will talk about it also, but from a different angle.

People from Air Canada told us here that the collective agreement provides for a bilingualism bonus. The flight times display indicates how many bilingual employees there must be on site. In this way, bilingual employees have the advantage of choosing the best hours, which bothers monolingual people.

Have you been able to access the collective agreements? Are there bilingualism bonuses? Is there something to do about this?

12:45 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

No. I think that Air Canada has still refused to make the collective agreements public.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

It was the Air Canada people who told us that.

12:45 p.m.

Director and General Counsel, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Pascale Giguère

A few years ago, when there were actions against Air Canada, we were able to consult these collective agreements. In the last 10 years, there has been progress in this area, but we have not analyzed the agreements recently.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Concerning Canadian Air Transport Security Authority employees, would that not be an incentive to encourage them to be bilingual? You said earlier that the exchanges were fairly limited. These employees do not have to know the whole dictionary in order to do their job, it is enough for them to understand the questions and answers. Is there a bonus for them if they can do that?

12:45 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

They receive bonuses, but as we explained, these are not employees of CATSA, but of companies.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

You are talking about the subcontractors that were discussed earlier.

12:45 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

That is correct.

The contract entered into between CATSA and the subcontractors stipulates the obligations to be met. There is also a bonus for employees who provide services in French. However, the subcontractors only check that the active offer is made; they do not check the service quality. This is part of our recommendations, because that does not go far enough. We must not merely check that the signs are in both languages and that we hear "Hello/Bonjour". If there are only one or two bilingual people in place, that is not enough. They must check that the service is provided and that it is a quality service.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

In sum, the subcontractors are asked to ensure that the service offers respects the contract clauses.

12:45 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I would like to point out that certain people do not respect the allotted speaking time as well as I do.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Mr. Généreux and Mr. Clarke will share their speaking time.

You may begin, Mr. Généreux.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

This will not take long. If I understood correctly, the officers should be functionally bilingual.

12:45 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

Yes, that is it.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

I now yield the floor to Mr. Clarke.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Samson raised a critical issue, the issue of delinquent suppliers. I would like to talk about that.

You were talking about solutions. In fact, the solution is strictly political. There are no others. However, it is extremely dangerous, in Canada, to talk about bilingualism. It can cost us an election.

In November 2015, the Supreme Court issued a decision in the Caron-Boutet case. In my opinion, it was not by chance that the decision was issued after the election. During the election, it could have triggered a constitutional crisis, or at least a political crisis. This is certainly a case that you are very familiar with, madam. The Court decided to reject the challenge of these two francophones from Alberta and Saskatchewan that was based on historical reasoning and on agreements. In their opinion, Alberta and Saskatchewan should be bilingual provinces and all their laws should, by this very fact, be bilingual. They unfortunately lost their case, because the Supreme Court must first and foremost protect Canadian unity. It does not say this, but it remains that this is its absolute role.

I remind you also that, on the site of the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, your predecessor, Mr. Graham Fraser, expressed his extreme disappointment in this Supreme Court decision.

Mr. Caron's lawyer, one of the plaintiffs in the case, said this: “The Trudeau government should do the right thing and say that it will correct this mistake and pay the province of Saskatchewan and Alberta the money they need to translate all their laws and the court rules”.

Bilingualism is a question of politics and money. This is the problem. It is extremely expensive. When the Supreme Court decided that Manitoba should be bilingual, according to the agreements, it cost billions of dollars.

For the providers to stop being delinquent, we, the politicians, must set an example. In particular, we could invest the billions of dollars necessary for Alberta and Saskatchewan to become bilingual provinces. In this way, they could no longer oppose this idea for financial reasons.

On the other hand, there would still be political problems. In fact, I am not sure that Ms. Notley would be re-elected if she took this initiative.

That being said, madam, I would like to know whether, like Mr. Fraser, you were disappointed by this decision and whether you believe that the current liberal government—and I really am asking this without any partisanship—should correct this problem in a political manner and not stop at this decision?

12:50 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

Yes, I was also very disappointed in this decision.

As for what the government must do, it is certain that....

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

You do not have power, strictly speaking. You can provide guidance, but that is all.

12:50 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

That is correct.

The next Action Plan for Official Languages will be very important. Since I have met a lot of people in the last five months, I can tell you, however, that everyone is trying to turn the situation to their own advantage.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Yes, indeed.

12:50 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

There is early childhood, immigration, justice, and so on. It would take a lot of money to respond to all the problems the communities have been experiencing, going back a number of years.

As far as the amount of money necessary, I do not know.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

That could be the solution.

New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province, even though Quebec is also bilingual. In fact, according to the British North America Act, all of our laws must be bilingual. At the National Assembly of Quebec, one can freely speak English. A minister was even criticized for responding in French to a question posed in English last week at the National Assembly.

I ask myself some serious questions about the Official Languages Act. In my opinion, because of the very important cultural rivalries and the political culture in Canada, this act is not being implemented adequately.

This brings me to my second question.

As interim commissioner, do you believe that regional bilingualism, as in Switzerland, could be a solution? Each region would have a referendum to choose a language, and this choice would then be applied. Do you find this revolutionary, too dangerous? What is your perspective on this subject?

12:50 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Ghislaine Saikaley

Since I have never thought about this question, it would be difficult for me to answer it today. This is not a system that Canada has chosen. It would probably be up to Parliament to debate it.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

That is all for me, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you.

I will now give the floor to Mr. François Choquette for a few minutes.