Official Languages Committee on May 9th, 2017

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Why is that?

[Suzie Durocher-Hendriks]

I don't know.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

A Canadian is a Canadian. Can't we be treated equally? Why must there absolutely be different exams?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

If you continue to talk like that, you are going to become a liberal.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Suzie Durocher-Hendriks]

When the draft exam came out, the problem of the lack of French resources was immediately apparent. We raised it. We asked where the translations were. We obtained them six months later. At that point we began to understand that there was a problem.

No one expected that there would be so few resources at our disposal. I am talking about the preparatory material, which the anglophones received. The anglophones have access to everything, absolutely everything; they lack for nothing. Multiple companies busy themselves producing preparatory tools in English. But the francophones received nothing.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Ms. Durocher-Hendriks, where do the preparatory tools used in Quebec to train nurses come from? Do they also come from the United States?

[Dr. Cynthia Baker]

No.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Is it different because is it a francophone province?

[Dr. Cynthia Baker]

You have to understand that the regulation is provincial. The NCSBN promotes its exam a great deal, not only in Canada. It tries to sell it throughout the world. Up till now, only the other Canadian provinces have purchased the exam. I believe Australia may buy it as well. They attempted to sell the exam in Quebec. Quebec representatives went to the United States, they looked at the exam, and they decided not to buy it,because they felt that Quebec needed to control its own training.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Would be possible to pool what is being done well in Canada? I know that the Quebec nursing program is well regarded. Could what is being done well in Quebec be used in the rest of Canada?

[Pierre Godbout]

I'd like to provide some important context.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Please answer briefly.

[Pierre Godbout]

For historical and other reasons, Quebec withdrew from the Canadian organizations that regulate the profession. This left the other provinces together. That is a good part of the answer to your question.

Are the standards the same? No, they are not. The possibility of using the same exam that is used in Quebec was already studied, but since the two health care systems are very different, a large part of the content would have to be adapted. I am not going to go into detail on that. That said, if Quebec were part of the equation, the market would justify the need, given the large number of francophone nurses.

Quebec has its own health care system. Compared to the system in the rest of Canada, the health care system in Quebec is even more different than the American health care system, on which the NCLEX-RN exam that was imposed on us is based.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Godbout.

Mr. Arseneault, you have the floor.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Baker, Ms. Lalonde, Mr. Godbout, Ms. Durocher-Hendriks and Ms. Larocque, thank you for your testimony.

I come from New Brunswick and I am the member for Madawaska—Restigouche. I am quite familiar with the issue you are discussing. My wife was a graduate nurse at the University of Moncton in Ms. Wade's day. She worked at the Dr. Georges-L.-Dumont University Hospital Centre. In short, I am quite familiar with the dynamics.

What you have just told us about in 15 minutes is a scandal, it is a huge barrier for francophones outside Quebec who want to study nursing. We know the situation well. I hear about it in my own village. Today we are hearing about it from professionals.

I don't want to go into detail about the scandal because everything I've heard has given me a headache, but I would like to know one thing. To obtain your Bachelor of Science in Nursing, the last step is practical training, practical internships in the field. Based on the University of Moncton program, I can state that the Bachelor of Science in Nursing is the degree that includes the largest number of practical training field placements in the four years.

Is it now a five-year program, or is it still four years long?

[Suzie Durocher-Hendriks]

It is a four-year program.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

It is one of the bachelor's programs that includes the largest number of practical training placements. The students do all of these practicums. During the last year, the last four months are entirely allocated to practical training. An experienced nurse is responsible for the nursing students, and he is able to confirm that the young man or the young woman has successfully completed his practical exam, his practical training. That student then receives his bachelor's degree. It seems to me that if there is an ultimate exam, it is that one.

I would like to have a better understanding of the dynamics that exist between the professional corporations and you, the training institutions. I would like to know how we got to this point. Suddenly an exam arrives here from Mars, even though it has nothing to do with the university training you provide to your students; suddenly that exam has precedence over the practical training internship which confirms that the students are ready to work and care for patients. How did this happen?

[Suzie Durocher-Hendriks]

You are quite right. I would like to mention that when our students are recommended as ready to practice their profession, they have before that point succeeded in all of the steps of the training.

The national exam confirms the student's studies, and allows greater mobility, so that he or she can practise in the other Canadian provinces. It's important. Such approval means that the training obtained in all of the universities is recognized.

I should mention that the universities were absolutely not consulted prior to the introduction of this exam. They were put before a fait accompli.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Who was it that did not consult you?

[Suzie Durocher-Hendriks]

I am referring to the regulatory organizations. We did not participate in anything...

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Who do these organizations report to, ultimately?

Forgive me for rushing you, but I only have five minutes.

[Suzie Durocher-Hendriks]

The organizations are provincial, and since 2011, they are part of an organization known in English as the CCRNR. In French the acronym is CCORPI, but I forget what it stands for.

[Pierre Godbout]

It is the Conseil canadien des organismes de réglementation de la profession infirmière.

[Suzie Durocher-Hendriks]

It 's an organization that was formed suddenly, almost instantly, and claimed there was a need for change and a will to change the exam giving access to the profession.