Evidence of meeting #60 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bilingual.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
The policy already exists.
So you were not contacted. Who will evaluate the bilingualism of superior court judges, and how will they be evaluated?
You said you were pioneers in this area. Aside from you, is there anyone who can assess the bilingualism of superior court and Supreme Court judges? Are there tests that exist to evaluate that?
11:30 a.m.
Director General, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
In 2016, the application form for judges who want to be appointed to superior courts was changed, but it is still a self-assessment.
11:30 a.m.
Judge responsible for the Program, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
It is a self-declaration.
11:30 a.m.
Conceptualization, test content and certification, Evaluation Service, KortoJura
It's a self-declaration.
11:30 a.m.
Director General, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
Yes. We are in touch with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages. In fact, one of the first people to speak with us was Commissioner Graham Fraser. I think that things could develop in this regard.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
I hope that Justice Canada and the people responsible for the Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Support Fund will contact you to develop tests for superior court judges and Supreme Court justices. Everyone is anxious to see bilingual judges at the Supreme Court of Canada.
Is the funding you receive from the Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Support Fund sufficient to carry out your mission properly?
11:30 a.m.
Director General, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
I can say that the judges' training program is going well. It could always be improved, which would help us to develop the technological aspect. We would also like to diversify our funding sources. We want to find funding elsewhere. The Access to Justice in Both Official Languages Support Fund is not the only source out there.
As Ms. Bonnin said, up till now KortoJura was a project under development. Now we want a structure and an administration, and that will certainly require additional funds. We want to extend our activities to the entire legal community, as this does not concern judges alone. KortoJura will certainly be asking for additional funds for this purpose.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
We contacted you when the Action Plan for Official Languages was developed, since access to justice is part of that plan and your mission is closely aligned with that.
In the context of the plan, what recommendations did you make regarding access to justice?
11:35 a.m.
Director General, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
We belong to the Réseau national de formation en justice, or RNFJ. I think Mr. Ronald Bisson testified before your committee. Through the RNFJ, recommendations on the assessment of language ability, among other things, were included in the report. In this regard, we collaborate closely with that network.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Fine.
Caraquet is very far from the territories, or Vancouver, for instance.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
However, if I understand correctly, you have no trouble attracting judges from these places. On the contrary, they want to come and learn a second language with you.
11:35 a.m.
Director General, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
Not only do they come to us, but they return. When that happens, we feel they must like us a lot to travel across Canada and land at the tiny Bathurst local airport.
In fact, all of this is overseen by the Canadian Judicial Council. The chief justices can invite judges in their court to go and take the training in Caraquet. In that sense, things happen in a closed circuit, but this allows us to reach the judges.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Thank you very much, Mr. Choquette.
I now give the floor to Mr. Samson, from Nova Scotia.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses very much for having come here, and for telling our committee about the work being done in the field to support judges in general.
It is a real pleasure for me to see my friend Denise LeBlanc, who studied with me at the University of Moncton. I believe this is the first time we've seen each other again, in fact.
Mr. Roy, Mr. Fortin, Ms. Bonnin, it's a pleasure to have you here.
My colleagues have mostly discussed the program as such. I'd like to branch out from that a bit.
Our government announced that Supreme Court justices would have to be bilingual.
What have you heard since, in the field?
Did this program generate more interest?
My question is addressed to all of you.
11:35 a.m.
Director, Evaluation Service, KortoJura
KortoJura was a project, but it is going to become an independent firm. We are going to develop tests. For the moment, we have...
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I don't want you to go into all of the details. I simply want to know whether, since our government announced that it was looking for bilingual judges for the Supreme Court, there has been increased interest in your program.
11:35 a.m.
Director General, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
I don't know if it's related to the government announcement, but there is certainly more and more interest in the work that we do. That is what we've seen.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Very good.
As you probably know, Justice Rowe was appointed to the Supreme Court on the basis of a self-assessment. There was also an oral comprehension exam.
If you had to rank assessments on a scale from one to four, where would the results generally lie?
11:35 a.m.
Conceptualization, test content and certification, Evaluation Service, KortoJura
You mean for Supreme Court justices?
11:35 a.m.
Conceptualization, test content and certification, Evaluation Service, KortoJura
I would say the results fit into four categories, given that, at this level, the individual can make distinctions. Interpretation can sometimes hinder nuances.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
What an interesting program you have. I'm glad the committee has the opportunity to discuss it.
Some argue that Canada does not have enough bilingual judges to meet the demand.
Where are your thoughts on that?
11:35 a.m.
Judge responsible for the Program, Legal Language Education Program, KortoJura
Calling yourself bilingual is one thing, but being able to discuss legal matters in a courtroom is another. Instead of talking about bilingual proficiency, I prefer to talk about language proficiency, which is what the tests measure.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Where do you stand on the availability of judges in Canada to meet the demand? How can this assessment service help?