Official Languages Committee on May 18th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, John. We might come back to you later.

Mr. Arseneault, you have the floor.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to share my speaking time with my colleague, Mr. Vandal.

Ms. Meilleur, you are aware of the work that commissioners have done in the past. In my opinion, they have always done good work. If your nomination were to be confirmed—it remains hypothetical for the moment—do you think you might work in a different way, or do you see elements that might become a part of your new position eventually?

[Madeleine Meilleur]

Do you mean outside of the work of commissioner?

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

No. As commissioner, would you consider a new approach?

[Madeleine Meilleur]

First, let me say I feel I have some big shoes to fill. The previous commissioner did extraordinary work. I appreciated working with him very much, for instance on the creation of the position of French Language Services Commissioner of Ontario, as well as all of the good advice he gave me, or, as I was saying, our work in setting a 5% target for francophone immigration. We cooperated to determine the best approaches to adopt.

There is no doubt that I have my own personality and my own way of doing things. However, I will be open to suggestions, because I listen well. I listen more than I speak when I meet with people from the communities. They are the ones who tell me about their needs, their aspirations and their challenges. First, you have to determine whether their request falls under the purview of the commissioner. If not, their requests can be conveyed to the responsible authorities.

I would also like to see a dialogue, while maintaining the independence of the Office of the Commissioner, in order to make progress on behalf of official language minority communities.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you very much.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Meilleur, it's a pleasure to meet you. I represent the riding of Saint-Boniface—Saint-Vital. I am of Métis origin.

This is what I want to ask you. In his tenth and last report, Commissioner Graham Fraser indicated that the way in which federal services are provided to official language minority communities has to be better defined.

In Manitoba, there are a lot of villages in a minority situation. There is Saint-Boniface, Saint-Vital, Saint-Malo, Saint-Eustache and Saint-Pierre.

I would like to hear about your perspective and your priorities with regard to services for official language minority communities.

[Madeleine Meilleur]

I would like to commend Senator Chaput, who introduced a very ambitious bill. I hope it will be adopted one day, but it already represents a step forward.

We must not only consider the number of people in a community, but its vitality. We all have a role to play in ensuring the vitality of communities, where culture, education and health care are concerned. There are some greater challenges in this last field, because it is difficult to recruit francophone health professionals. However, we have to work at it.

I also know the communities and small villages of Ontario. I do not know the small villages of Manitoba well, with the exception of Fisher Branch, but I do know those in Ontario.

Most of the francophones in Ontario live in small villages. How can we help them to preserve their language, through funding programs or studies? I know that Mr. Fraser also carried out a study on the francophone media, more specifically on community newspapers.

We have to continue in this direction, and see to it that his recommendations are acted upon.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Did you ever visit Manitoba when you were in your previous position?

[Madeleine Meilleur]

Yes, quite often. We were privileged in that one of the members of our group, the Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie, was Mr. Selinger, the former Premier of Manitoba, who was then Minister of Francophone Affairs. He was the dean of Ministers of Francophone Affairs. I had the opportunity of visiting Manitoba several times. In fact, I travelled there to announce the collaboration agreement between TFO and Manitoba. It was an excellent partnership.

After having developed tools in Ontario, we tried to share them or sell them to other communities, such as New Brunswick. The Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie promoted an exchange of best practices, even if each province was then free to decide what to do next.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I have another question for you.

Ms. France Gélinas, the New Democrat member for Nickel Belt, said something that struck me; she said that Madeleine Meilleur was a francophone first, and a Liberal second.

Could you give us your thoughts on that comment, which has a certain depth?

[Madeleine Meilleur]

As I said in the beginning, I was the only francophone in cabinet. That was the situation for 12 and a half years. I was the advocate for francophones, and also their commissioner before there was one. When the opposition asked a question, it was music to my ears, as it allowed me to move our files forward.

For instance, I suggested to Ms. Dyane Adam, who was the commissioner before Mr. Fraser, that she chair a committee on a potential francophone university. She just sent me an email this morning.

Ms. Gélinas asked a lot of questions on the francophone university so as to move this file forward. I see that she is continuing her efforts. It helps the Minister of Francophone Affairs to move things forward. Having someone ask a question is not negative. She would sometimes ask me if I agreed with such and such a question, and I answered that she should not hesitate, because I found it useful.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Vandal.

We'll go now to Randy Hoback.

Or, are you coming back, John?

Okay, John.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I have a question.

First of all, I was remiss the first time in not thanking you for your many years of service. We don't have a problem with you as a person. I think you've done an exceptional job in a number of files. I do want to put that on the record. This is about process; it's not about you as an individual, in most circumstances.

I just want to follow up quickly. Subsection 49(1) of the Official Languages Act requires consultation. In response to an earlier question, you mentioned that you were informed in April that your name would be going forward. Our leader Madame Ambrose was informed on May 8 about this nomination and the request for consultation. I find it at odds with the requirement in the Official Languages Act for consultation that you were informed in April and the consultation didn't happen till May 8. I'm not sure about the New Democratic leader, but I assume it's the same timeframe. Do you have a comment on that?

[Madeleine Meilleur]

Listen, I don't want to answer on the process. I'm not responsible for the process. There was a position that was open. I applied for the position. I went through a rigorous process. I have been selected because of my competence and my feuille de route.

I'm excited about working in official languages. I cannot wait to start if I'm the successful candidate. I hope I will be able to go into your community to speak to the francophones. I know your provincial colleague is a wonderful, wonderful supporter of les affaires francophones also.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'll pass it now to Mr. Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Actually, I'll build on that, because that's where the problems start to come into play. Again, with your service and stuff—it's not personal. Put yourself in my shoes. I'm looking at you coming in as a former Liberal MPP. I'm looking at this as something in which the government didn't even follow the appropriate process. If it had come to us maybe in May or April and said, “We're considering this person. What do you think?” then we would have had input into that whole process and we probably would not be here, with this type of tone at this point in time. But it didn't do that.

Now, let's say you take on the role of official languages commissioner, and you're in a scenario in which you have to make a decision. Since the process wasn't properly followed, how do I have confidence that the decision to nominate you was made based on your expertise? How do I not, in the background, think there's some Liberal partisanship going on here? It's always going to hang over any decision you make, even if it's the correct decision. How do we handle that scenario? That's what makes this very difficult.

[Madeleine Meilleur]

Listen, I understand your point. I understand Monsieur Mulcair's point. There have been other persons—not the Official Languages Commissioner—whose appointments were very controversial, and they ended up doing a good job, and people are very happy. We appointed judges who had come from a political background. Our former attorney general in Ontario was—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

You can even use the example of Gary Doer. Mr. Harper appointed him to the ambassadorship in the U.S., but in that scenario it was an NDP premier and a Conservative Prime Minister. You could see that it made sense. There was actually a left-leaning president in the U.S., so that made a lot of sense.

The issue I have here is just because of your history with the Liberal Party. Take the scenario where you're the commissioner and Katie Telford phones you up and says, “Let's go for coffee.” Do you take the phone call? Do you go for coffee? How do you recuse yourself from what that conversation during coffee may involve? Just a general “How's your day going?” could lead into a conversation about one of your investigations, or something that she's saying could.

How do you put that wall in place to stay away from those types of conflicts of interest?

[Madeleine Meilleur]

I recognize that I will have to be very prudent—very, very prudent—because to be objective is not just to say it but to have the appearance of it also. I will make sure that I am very prudent in terms of making sure that people see that in my new function I'm very impartial and very neutral. I hope I will be judged by my comportement and my results.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I use the example of when the Prime Minister had an investigation under Official Languages in January because of an answer he gave in French in Quebec. Would you recuse yourself from all your Liberal friends in that scenario? Would you say, “Guys, I can't talk to any of you until I'm done this investigation”? The reality is that it will come into the conversation, whether we like it or not. We're humans. That's what happens. If you came back with a decision and said, no, he wasn't in conflict, then how do I not wonder if you were influenced by a conversation you had with a former Liberal senator or with a former Liberal Party member?

There will alway be a cloud of doubt in that judgment, even though it might have been the correct judgment. How do I overcome that? How do I get over that? I just look at the process they followed here. They made it impossible for us to get over that type of scenario.

[Madeleine Meilleur]

Yes, but I'll repeat it again: I'm not going to erase 13 years. I'm very proud of what I did and of the work I did. I went through a process. There was an opening and I put my name forward. It was rigorous. I knew I would have a difficult path to become the commissioner, not because I questioned myself but—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

If you knew the process wasn't going to be followed properly, if you knew that in the process they weren't going to consult, like it requires in legislation, with the opposition parties, would you still have let your name stand?

[Madeleine Meilleur]

I'm not talking about this process—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

But you were talking about the process.