Official Languages Committee on May 30th, 2017

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I am trying to find out where your thinking process has led you.

If I were one of the people responsible for Air Canada and heard what you were saying, I would be applauding. I would be happy to learn that the committee in question may recommend that all airlines be subject to the Official Languages Act. However, I am not certain that the airlines in question would applaud.

If Transport Canada decided that all airlines should be subject to the law, would other means of transport consider that they too should be subject to this? Some would certainly react by saying that their business plans did not include expenses comparable to Air Canada's. There is, in fact, a certain lack of balance to the detriment of Air Canada, one must admit.

I want to know what your thoughts are.

[Sara Wiebe]

Perhaps I can talk about the steps we're taking in terms of arriving at that decision this committee is seeking.

Right now, as I mentioned, I'm in active dialogue with my colleagues in the other three departments with regard to the various issues before this committee. That is ongoing. Once we receive the advice of this committee, we will be finalizing our policy analysis and providing advice to our respective ministers.

At that point in time, it would be a decision of ministers to debate, on behalf of the government, what the response would be. It would be at that point that a policy decision would be made about how to respond to the various questions that you're asking me today. At that point in time, the government...once the policy decision is made, we would put forward the measures needed to implement the policy decision of this government.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I get the impression that we are a bit like a dog chasing its own tail. We don't know who is chasing whom.

The committee may invite experts or all of the Canadian airline companies to tell us what they think of the idea, but I already know the answer. We could invite them so that you can hear their answers.

Today, I thought you had come to speak to us about Transport Canada's orientation, in light of what has been said, of what Commissioner Fraser repeated for several years, and the recommendations he made. We could have heard your thoughts and invited other experts to feed into your thinking. I do not get the sense today that I have found out about Transport Canada's intentions in a way that would encourage us to invite other witnesses for the purpose of stimulating your reflection.

[Sara Wiebe]

Again, this is why I wanted to appear before the committee today, after receiving your invitation, to give you an idea of what are some of the issues and the context within which we at Transport Canada are considering the recommendations of Mr. Fraser and anticipating the advice of this committee.

I wanted to give you a flavour of an air sector that's very vibrant right now, but it's not too long ago that it wasn't. I can give you a list of all the Canadian air carriers that no longer exist. We're talking about CanJet, Canada 3000.... These are all Canadian air carriers that, because of the challenge of Canada's air sector, no longer exist.

I wanted to give you a context and a flavour of the work we're doing interdepartmentally to take a look at this issue, but in the end, the decision that you're asking for, or the information that you're looking for today, would be a decision made by the government, not by me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Arseneault, you have the floor.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Wiebe, what is your relationship with Air Canada regarding the department's policies and objectives?

Do you often meet with its representatives? Do you talk with them? How do things work?

[Sara Wiebe]

We have an ongoing dialogue with all of Canada's air carriers, including Air Canada. I can say that we have a strong collaboration between ourselves and that company.

I think that sometimes they express concern about the direction being taken by this government. At other times, they are quite supportive of the decisions being taken by the government. In that sense, it's not always smooth, but I think we have reached a place with Air Canada where we're able to have an open and ongoing dialogue.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You say that the dialogues are not always easy. Could you give us a concrete example relating to official languages?

[Sara Wiebe]

Specifically with regard to official languages, as this committee is knows this very well, Air Canada has regularly indicated its concern that it is the only air carrier subject to the official languages provisions. Just the other day, I was reviewing a submission to Mr. Emerson, who led the review of the Canada Transportation Act, and it had an entire section in there where they provided their analysis and data to support their recommendation that Air Canada be relieved of its obligations with regard to the Official Languages Act.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

So, that is pressure that Air Canada exerts?

[Sara Wiebe]

That is correct.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

What is your department's position in this regard?

[Sara Wiebe]

It's one of the issues, the points of view, that we're taking into consideration as we're debating the obligations of Canada's air carriers with regard to official languages. It's but one of many views that we're taking into consideration.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

So, the recommendations absolutely must say that this has to stay.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Does the department understand the history that led to Air Canada's obligation to respect the Official Languages Act and comply with it?

[Sara Wiebe]

Absolutely, and I think that's what I tried to outline in my opening remarks about Air Canada at one point being a crown corporation and being privatized in the late 1980s. Despite the privatization under the Air Canada Public Participation Act, the government of the day determined that certain obligations would remain with Air Canada going forward, including the obligation to be subject to the Official Languages Act.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

On this precise matter, have you had discussions with Air Canada indicating that the union was not in favour of complete compliance with the Official Languages Act?

My question is hypothetical. Have you ever had the impression that even if Air Canada wanted to respect the Official Languages Act to the letter, the employees' union was reluctant to do so?

[Sara Wiebe]

I'll speak for myself. I've never had a conversation with Air Canada that involved reticence on the part of their unions with regard to official languages.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You have not heard that personally, but you have heard it said in your department?

[Sara Wiebe]

That is not part of the information that I've had at my disposal, no.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Are you aware of a letter written by the Air Canada union that stated that because of a policy on official languages, employees would have to comply with certain obligations and that this was unfortunate for them?

Have you heard of such a letter?

[Sara Wiebe]

No, I have not.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

If you had such a letter, signed by a union representative or the president of the union of Air Canada employees, which said something like: “Unfortunately, we have to comply with the Official Languages Act, and this could have some drawbacks on the way we operate”, what would your department's reaction be?

[Sara Wiebe]

It would be one of the issues that we would take into consideration as we further debate the considerations or the policy issues associated with this discussion.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Ms. Wiebe, I don't have the letter here, but we have all seen it. It is something that exists and that really happened.