Yes.
Evidence of meeting #73 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was questions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #73 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was questions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
The topic of my next question has already been addressed by Mr. Arseneault, but I'll talk about it anyway as well.
We have talked a lot about whether the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages should have more powers.
In addition to Air Canada, other agencies are somewhat more reluctant about complying with the Official Languages Act. You touched on this, but I'd like you to expand on it a bit. Should the Commissioner of Official Languages be given more powers and, if so, how should it be done concretely?
5 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
As I said to the previous commissioners at some point in their mandate, the Commissioner of Official Languages should have more power. They all told me that these increased powers would undermine their independence and that they preferred the status quo. I replied that it would be possible to separate the powers or to step them up. There are undeniably all sorts of ways to calm the apprehension of commissioners who are afraid of losing their credibility because of increased powers.
This is an administrative agency. Initially, the idea was for the commissioner to conduct investigations, prepare reports and make recommendations to Parliament and federal institutions. In the event of a problem, the matter could ultimately be referred to the Federal Court. The commissioners weren't given the tools they needed to carry out their mandate properly.
I agree that the commissioner should be given more power, not only the commissioner for the federal government, but also to the provincial commissioners, whether it be New Brunswick, Ontario or somewhere else.
5 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you very much for that answer.
I gather that we could give them more powers by amending the Official Languages Act.
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
That's right.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
That really clarifies things. Our committee will soon review the Official Languages Act, as you have recommended.
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I recommend that that path be explored.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
It's very interesting. It could be done by adding administrative monetary penalties, or AMPs, to the Official Languages Act, isn't that so?
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Yes, as one of the commissioner's powers.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
That could be done.
You said that AMPs have advantages and disadvantages. Would these penalties be an effective power for the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages? You said at the outset that enforceable agreements may be worthwhile, but they aren't enough. Could AMPs be complementary to these agreements?
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Yes because we want to give the federal institution in question a chance to do something to correct the problem. It would be asked to submit a plan, as is currently done.
Let's take Air Canada, for example, which submits a plan to the commissioner. He confirms that the plan is satisfactory and that everything will be fine, but after two years, the company abandons its plan and there are no penalties. If the plan had legal force, Air Canada would be subject to administrative monetary penalties after two years.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Thank you very much, Mr. Choquette.
Mr. Lefebvre, you have three minutes.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Lefebvre Liberal Sudbury, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Foucher, thank you for being here. I did my studies in French in the common law section of the Faculty of Law at the University of Ottawa. You also were in that faculty, as well as the one in Moncton, weren't you?
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Lefebvre Liberal Sudbury, ON
A few months ago, when Transport Canada officials came to the committee, they implied that it was time to let Air Canada do what it wanted and no longer deal with providing services in French. When they appeared before us, representatives of that company told us that all carriers should also be subject to the Official Languages Act, as you mentioned.
What do you have to say about that?
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I will enjoy my academic freedom. It's good to be a professor, because you can sometimes say things that may seem huge.
There are already difficulties in applying the act to Air Canada. Applying the act to all carriers would increase the difficulty. The Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages needs a larger budget. I would go even further. I don't understand why all institutions under federal jurisdiction, including banks, airlines and interprovincial transportation companies, aren't subject to the Official Languages Act. They should also be required to comply with Part IV of the act and provide services to their clients in French or English across Canada.
Following the same logic of what I said earlier, if you don't protect a language, the stronger language will prevail. It isn't enough that banks have the choice to provide mortgages in French, they should be forced to offer them to their clients. They would have to have bilingual advertisements and bilingual employees. What I am saying is huge.
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
So a lot of institutions would be subject to the act. Perhaps it should be done gradually.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Lefebvre Liberal Sudbury, ON
If there was a review of the Official Languages Act, I think extending the act should be addressed and studied.
We are currently working on a report that addresses the whole Air Canada issue. When the commissioner came to testify before the committee, he said that the situation has existed for 30 or 40 years. Obviously, the issue of penalties, whether monetary or otherwise, is one of the subjects we would like to address. In fact, Mr. Foucher, we thank you very much for your comments on this.
I would like to ask you a quick question.
You said that other penalties have been applied in other sectors. Could you tell us about the other penalties?
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
These are situations where a company subject to a commissioner violates a requirement set out in the act. In this case, the commissioner in question automatically triggers a administrative monetary penalty. That is how the Office of the Privacy Commissioner works.
It serves as a deterrent to the company.
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Yes, it already has been. As I said at the beginning of my presentation, the commissioner's four options are already being implemented.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Thank you very much.
Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for three minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Last week, we heard Mr. Thibodeau's testimony. He explained to us that, in his opinion, an “Exit” sign above a door on an airplane or in an airport or in the Air Canada offices violates his rights.
A company like Air Canada uses airplanes, but it does not manufacture them. Before signing a contract, it could always demand that “Exit” or “Sortie” be above the airplane door. This isn't the case because these airplanes are sold around the world.
Do you think this is really a violation of Mr. Thibodeau's language rights? I don't want to play devil's advocate, but it's become… I can't think of the right word. Can you help me?
5:10 p.m.
Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
A mission?