Evidence of meeting #77 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was questionnaire.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for your presentation, gentlemen.
Errors are never a simple matter. There can be no doubt about that. What concerns me, however, is that there were a number of errors. The main error was a misinterpretation of the language, as you said. However, other errors occurred during the process right up until the information was published. That is what is troubling. The fact that the initial error occurred internally is one thing, but the fact that it went through four or five stages without being noticed before the data were made public is quite another. The data analysis method should be reviewed.
We can also see how quickly this kind of error can cause problems. If my memory serves me, the Bloc member Mr. Beaulieu declared, after reading the data indicating a major increase, that English was taking control of Quebec, or something like that. That is always disturbing.
I read what a certain Mr. Éric Boucher wrote, that it was somewhat odd that the people who work full time on an issue are unable to detect these kinds of anomalies. How do you respond to that comment?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Census program, Statistics Canada
Before commenting on what Mr. Boucher wrote, I can give you an answer based on my viewpoint.
I am responsible for the census program at Statistics Canada, and this is a dramatic incident for all the people who work on my project. No one is proud of this. We take this very seriously. We are very proud of the work we do, and we completely understand the importance of this information for all data users and the implications the data have for decision-making everywhere. We did not take this lightly. We really worked very hard to correct it, and we will continue to work to prevent it from reoccurring.
To err is human. It can happen, but we do not take it lightly. I can assure you we are doing what is necessary to ensure the integrity of census findings.
Generally speaking, all our statistics programs are extraordinary. We have learned a great deal from this error, and we will make sure we improve our processes—even though they were very robust before this incident—so that it does not reoccur.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
With your permission, I am going to draw a brief comparison with the Acadians and minority francophones across Canada.
In this case, bad data led to results that raised a lot of questions. The data did not represent the actual situation.
And yet, for 35 years, there have been no accurate or incorrect findings concerning Acadians and minority francophones outside Quebec because the census does not include questions that would assist in enumerating rights holders as defined under paragraph 23(1)(b) and subsection 23(2) of the charter.
It took one week for these incorrect data to cause panic, whereas there have been no data to help increase the francophone population outside Quebec in the past 35 years. I see that as a problem.
What are your comments on that?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Census program, Statistics Canada
The only comment I will make concerns the error itself. As you can see in the presentation, we reacted as quickly as possible, as soon as we knew there was a problem with the data, precisely because we understand the importance of this information for users and communities in Canada. We immediately withdrew the incorrect data and, within a week, made the appropriate correction and re-released the validated results.
I repeat, we take the importance of this information for data users very seriously. We really took the bull by the horns in this case and made the corrections as soon as possible, while ensuring that, in correcting one error, we did not create another.
I believe rights holders were discussed during Statistics Canada's last appearance. We will review the process to determine how to address this situation as we prepare for the 2021 program.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
In the case of rights holders, we are still looking for the bull.
Thank you.
I have finished my questions.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to speak further to what Mr. Samson told us. Errors are a part of life, and it is by an accumulation of errors that we acquire experience.
Is the questionnaire first issued in English and then translated? How does that work?
4:10 p.m.
Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
The questionnaires are distributed to the entire population online. People can select their language of choice.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
No, I am talking about how the questionnaire is prepared.
4:10 p.m.
Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
They are automatically prepared in both languages.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
They really are prepared simultaneously in both languages.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
You mean that two people sit down on either side of a table and that one works on the questionnaire in French without looking at what the other is doing?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Census program, Statistics Canada
It depends on the content. If the experts in a certain field are francophone, they will mainly work in French, and that will subsequently be translated into English. If the experts in another field are anglophone, it will be in English and subsequently translated into French.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
As far as you know, before the official version of the questionnaire is even available for the public to respond to, do any discussions take place between the department and all the IT or other people who handle the software to validate the information?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Census program, Statistics Canada
As I explained earlier, every step is systematically reviewed again and again. When we produce a computer program, we ensure that it performs the functions for which it was designed. Similarly, when we design and test questions, we want to ensure that Canadians understand them and answer them in a normal fashion. The conduct of a census involves hundreds of steps, from questionnaire make-up to release of findings, and we review all those steps one by one to ensure the integrity of the entire system.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Director General, Census program, Statistics Canada
The system operates on inputs and outputs. There is an input, and there must be an output, and we already know what the output should be. Normally, in this system, we will check at the output stage to ensure the results appear as they should.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you for your answers.
An error was made; that happens in life. You have the necessary system that enabled you to rectify the situation quite quickly. That is not my main concern. Further to what Mr. Samson said, I would say that my main concern is still the enumeration of rights holders. I know that does not concern you today, Mr. Hamel. However, Mr. Corbeil, we have had you here at least three or four times on this subject. You have almost become a good friend.
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
This is almost an everyday concern for me.
October 31st, 2017 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
I do not know whether that is a good sign. It seems so difficult to do what, for me, a neophyte as regards Statistics Canada, initially seems so simple to do: create a questionnaire. From my perspective, nothing could be simpler than to create a questionnaire.
Of course, I am afraid that, although we would like to achieve the aims of paragraphs 23(1)(a) and (b) and subsection 23(2) of the charter, this kind of error may reoccur in the enumeration of rights holders. However, I am mainly concerned about the mechanics involved in preparing this questionnaire for future censuses. Perhaps Mr. Corbeil can respond further to that, but I have never been reassured that the questionnaire will be ready on time. I understand that errors may occur between the English and French versions, but they are errors that can be explained. And you clearly explain this one. What is important for me is to ensure that the next census enables us to get a clear picture of rights holders under section 23 of the charter. Is that still possible?
4:15 p.m.
Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
As we explained, and I even repeated this during our last appearance, I can assure you we have done everything possible, made every effort, and involved all the necessary teams. Just yesterday, I met with Statistics Canada experts, more specifically methodology experts. We are looking at options. We have a timetable. Meetings are scheduled soon, in late November or early December. Although we have not yet finalized our advisory committee list, I can tell you that resources have been allocated exclusively to this process. I can guarantee you we will devote the necessary energy and effort to enumerating rights holders.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
