Evidence of meeting #85 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was théberge.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Raymond Théberge  Nominee for the position of Commissioner of Official Languages, As an Individual

December 7th, 2017 / 3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Alupa Clarke

Good afternoon, members of the committee, media representatives in attendance, Minister and senior officials of the Department of Canadian Heritage. Thank you for being here.

I will ask for your cooperation today. Our agenda is very full, and we will have two meetings back to back.

I first want to emphasize the fact that the minister is honouring us with her visit today.

Thank you very much. We have been waiting for your visit for a while, Minister.

We will suspend the meeting after an hour and resume it five or ten minutes later in order to conclude our meeting with the candidate for the position of Commissioner of Official Languages, Mr. Théberge. We will likely vote yes or no on his appointment at the end of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), we will consider the Annual Report on Official Languages 2015-2016, referred to the committee on Wednesday, August 16, 2017. We are hearing from the Honourable Minister of Canadian Heritage, as well as two witnesses from the Department of Canadian Heritage: Hubert Lussier, Assistant Deputy Minister of Citizenship, Heritage and Regions, and Jean-Pierre C. Gauthier, Director General of the Official Languages Branch, Citizenship, Heritage and Regions.

Minister, go ahead.

3:30 p.m.

Ahuntsic-Cartierville Québec

Liberal

Mélanie Joly LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for having me again.

As the chair pointed out, I am accompanied by Hubert Lussier, assistant deputy minister for Citizenship, Heritage and Regions, and Jean-Pierre C. Gauthier, director general of official languages.

First, I would like to thank this committee for its work on issues that are important to Canadians and to our government.

You have invited me here today to talk about the Annual Report on Official Languages 2015-2016.

This report presents Canadian Heritage's achievements through its official language support programs.

As you know, Canadian Heritage administers two major official language support programs. One is designed to support the development of official language minority communities. Among other things, this program helps us support the provinces and territories providing government services to official language minority communities in areas such as education, culture, justice, and health. The other focuses on promoting the use of English and French in Canadian society.

The report includes the efforts made by 72 federal institutions to support the development of official-language minority communities and promote both languages in Canadian society.

It also evaluates the third year of implementation of the roadmap for Canada's official languages, which expires on March 31, 2018. At the time the report was submitted, 96% of the expenses forecast for 2015-2016 had been disbursed.

The next annual report on official languages, for 2016-2017, is in production. It will include all the work accomplished during the consultations held in 2016. For me, this work was crucial. It was the first step toward developing a new action plan for official languages.

I will say more about the action plan in a moment, but I would like to take a few minutes to talk about the latest Statistics Canada data on official languages.

The data released in August show an up-to-date portrait of our two official languages. It is clear that they remain an important tool for unity and inclusion in an increasingly diversified society.

Even so, we can do better. We must continue our efforts. The data highlighted how important it is for our government to continue to promote official languages and official language minority communities.

Let's take a look at what is happening in the communities.

The absolute number of francophones living in French-speaking minority communities has increased. Francophone communities are growing especially rapidly in the three territories. What that means is that more and more Canadians whose mother tongue is French are living in minority communities—Canadians who contribute daily to our country's development, diversity and excellence.

Overall, however, the relative proportion of francophones is declining: it has dwindled from 4% in 2011 to 3.8% in 2016. In light of this, the government's support is crucial.

What about linguistic duality? As you know, never before has Canada had so many bilingual citizens: 6.2 million people. However, the situation varies widely from region to region. Francophones are highly bilingual, at 89% outside Quebec and 41.5% within Quebec. Anglophones in Quebec are also highly bilingual, at 66%. However, only 6.6% of anglophones outside Quebec are bilingual.

There is potential for major progress here. Immersion classes are gaining in popularity across the country, and Canadians have frequently told us how attached they are to their two official languages.

Our government has taken note of these data and intends to fulfill its official-languages obligations.

In fact, we have already taken action on several files. One of the examples is the new bilingualism criterion in the appointment of judges to the Supreme Court. Another example is the new multilateral early learning and child care framework. There was also the announcement that our government will review the Official Languages Regulations. We should also mention the reinstatement and modernization of the court challenges program. Another example is the establishment of the Mobilité francophone component of the international mobility program and the expansion of the express entry system. Of course, that has to do with immigration. I would also like to remind you of the funding under Budget 2017 that included: additional funding of $2.24 million for the young Canada works in both official languages program; $80 million over 10 years for the construction of community educational infrastructure in official-language minority communities; $7.5 million per year ongoing to improve parliamentary translation services; and $2 million over two years to improve the ability of federal courts to make decisions available in French and in English. Those are all files on which we have taken action, and the list goes on.

The current roadmap will end on March 31. We will be ready to continue the initiative with a new action plan.

I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to make an important point. The investments linked to the roadmap are now permanent. That is, the project presented in the roadmap will extend beyond March 31, 2018. The new action plan, which will be in place on April 1, 2018, will build on investments made over the last 15 years. I look forward to announcing that, once the plan is ready. In the meantime, I can assure you that we are working very hard to meet Canadians' expectations.

Thank you for your attention.

I would now be happy to answer your questions.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Alupa Clarke

Thank you, Minister.

Without further ado, we will begin the first round of questions.

Mr. Généreux, you have six minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you very much for being here today.

I will later ask you questions about the potential roadmap and the new action plan. Right now, I would like to take advantage of your presence to ask about the process that led to the possible appointment of Mr. Théberge. In fact, his appointment should be approved soon.

Last spring was an absolute mess. Actually, the reason Mr. Théberge is here is the fact that process went so badly in the spring.

Minister, what is the difference between the process that led to Mr. Théberge's appointment and the one that resulted in last spring's appointment?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

We are very proud of the appointment process, which is basically more rigorous and transparent than ever for the appointment of a commissioner of official languages.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Are you talking about the process that led to the appointment of Mr. Théberge or the process that took place in the spring?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

I am talking about the process in general.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Okay.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

In July, I had an opportunity to consult various opposition parties and to send a letter to different opposition leaders, as well as to official languages critics. I have received responses to my letters. I then had an opportunity to discuss with two critics—the Conservative Party critic and the NDP critic.

We are very pleased to have a great candidate in Mr. Théberge. Of course, we value the importance of that independent officer of Parliament, and we also value, in a general sense, the importance of official languages.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

During his testimony before the Senate, Mr. Théberge said he was aware of the entire process that led to the disqualification of Ms. Meilleur, which happened in June, and he said he applied for the position of commissioner of official languages on July 28.

His application was in keeping with the principle of transparency, as you say. However, a headhunting firm contracted by the government called him when his application was accepted.

Why contract that kind of a firm when a rigorous and transparent process is in place, if I may use all the nice adjectives you always use to describe it? The firm did not suggest to Mr. Théberge that he apply; he did that on his own.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

We are very proud of our process.

Generally speaking, concerning all government appointments, thousands of Canadians have applied for various positions. A number of Canadians applied for that specific officer of Parliament position.

I'm happy to see that Mr. Théberge was unanimously supported by the Senate. I am sure he will be an excellent watchdog in the area of protecting and promoting language rights in the country.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

For technical reasons, we had to cut our meeting with Mr. Théberge short on Tuesday and postpone the second hour of the meeting. However, Mr. Théberge had the time to answer various questions that were put to him, including one on the bilingualism of Supreme Court judges. We will later have an opportunity to ask him to clarify his position on that.

What is your opinion on what he said about Supreme Court judges' bilingualism?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

Mr. Théberge is a candidate for a position of officer of Parliament that is inherently independent from government.

Moreover, the Liberal government's position on the issue of bilingualism in the Supreme Court has always been clear. I'm surprised to hear you asking me the question, given that the previous Conservative government appointed a number of judges to the Supreme Court who were not bilingual—who could not speak English or French, depending on the case. We have appointed two excellent judges to the Supreme Court, including Sheilah Martin, recently. She was able to answer the questions of members of parliamentary justice committees in French and in English.

We are very proud to support bilingualism in the Supreme Court and will continue to do so.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

In the House, a bit earlier, you answered one of NDP's questions on that issue. I want to talk about it again because it is important. You said that the new leader of the NDP got bogged down when he tried to express his position. Unless I'm mistaken, you said there was a contradiction within the NDP in terms of what some people wanted and what others were saying.

Do you personally support judges' bilingualism? If so, why did you vote against—if I'm not mistaken—Mr. Choquette's bill?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

Concerning your question on the NDP, it would be up to that party to state its position on bilingualism in the Supreme Court.

Our position is clear concerning the appointment of bilingual judges to the Supreme Court—judges who can speak English and French. As a government, we have appointed two judges to the Supreme Court, and both were bilingual. Not only did we appoint them, but we will continue to appoint bilingual judges to the Supreme Court. We are prepared to look at ways to ensure that judges are functionally bilingual in the context of the Supreme Court appointment process.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Your government committed to introduce a bill to that effect. When will it be introduced?

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

Our government is always ready to do more to protect and promote official languages.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Alupa Clarke

Mr. Samson, go ahead.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here. I also want to thank your colleagues, Mr. Lussier and Mr. Gauthier, whom I have known for a long time.

I would like to come back to a few points you raised. You talked about the government's successes, and it is very important to point them out. They are no doubt numerous, but I would like to talk about two of them. I would ask you to provide us with some information on them.

Historically, an agreement has never existed between the federal government and the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones under the official languages in education program. The signing of a first agreement led to a major change: priorities are well defined, and that will guarantee, to an extent, good negotiations with the provinces and territories.

There are also daycare centres, which provide a service that is essential to second language learning. Thanks to your leadership, of course, and to Mr. Duclos' leadership, part of the federal funding for early childhood is set aside for official language communities.

Those are really two major successes.

Could you tell us how that could help minority communities?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Samson. I know that you are an amazing champion of linguistic minorities, especially in Nova Scotia, and that education is important to you, since you are a former school board trustee.

This issue is important to us, as well. We have noted a willingness among francophone school boards across the country to ensure greater transparency, greater provincial accountability in the context of roadmap negotiations. So, we have decided to stand up for francophone school boards and, of course, to include them in our negotiations with the provinces and territories. The goal is to ensure that, when it's time for the federal government to invest in education, school boards can benefit. Ultimately, the provinces and territories must show transparency and be accountable.

As you know, we are the first government to invest as much money in early childhood. In the context of our consultations on official languages, we have heard all over the country about the importance of early childhood. Although we just invested in early childhood and are developing a new action plan for official languages, it goes without saying that we want to ensure that our communities' needs are properly identified and that they can benefit from our investments.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Those two changes, which affect education and minority communities, will practically change the world. You have my sincerest thanks.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

You also had an opportunity to meet with a number of community groups in Nova Scotia, a few months ago. Afterwards, those people said that you shared with them a very relevant approach aimed at ensuring the vitality of communities.

Can you tell me a bit about your trip to Nova Scotia and your meeting with those community groups?

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mélanie Joly Liberal Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC

Yes. Thank you.

I had an opportunity to meet with a number of Nova Scotia's Acadian organizations. They actually all attended the meeting that was held in a francophone school in the city of Dartmouth, next to Halifax. You were there, as was the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Darren Fisher

We had some good discussions. Essentially, I told those people that, in the extensive consultations we have held across the country, we have targeted issues that were of serious concern to our communities, including the importance of francophone immigration, of early childhood, of support for print media and for community radio stations in minority situations and of increasing community groups' operating budgets. Those are the issues we will address in the official languages action plan. Those are fundamental issues for the future of our communities, basically when it comes to ensuring their vitality.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

Okay. I have a number of questions, but here is a final one, which is very important.

A lot of work has been done in the past two years by the government, and also by our committee. The reports that have been presented are very specific and focus on issues that are essential to furthering linguistic duality, which is extremely important.

The Official Languages Act has been around for a long time. We will soon be examining the act very closely to determine how it could be improved. Where are we at in that process? This is very important and is germane to what you said.