No.
Evidence of meeting #88 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was resdac.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #88 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was resdac.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
That changes everything. It is essential to make this distinction from the beginning.
4 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
Absolutely.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
In other areas, the federal government gives equalization payments to the provinces so that they have a level playing field. The goal is the same in this case: we must ensure that both communities have the same opportunities.
We are really talking about anglophone and francophone minority communities. Is it the same with respect to official language majority communities? No. So there is a serious problem and we have to get to the bottom of things.
4 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
I would just like to clarify that Mr. Choquette's question was about anglophones in Quebec, who are a minority community.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Yes, and you answered the question very well. I just wanted to make sure that the people around us understood.
I am interested in the Commissioner’s recommendation that the government assess the impact of cutting the funding to organizations. What do you think the impact is? Please make a comparison with the situation of the organizations for the anglophone majority. I want to know whether, on the ground, both communities have the same opportunities. I do not think that's the case.
4 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
It's very simple, it's a question of math or critical mass. For example, there are 20,000 Fransaskois in Saskatchewan. The loss of a francophone organization would have a much greater impact on the francophone minority community than it would have on the majority community. In that were to happen, the majority community would have two, three or four other organizations that would take over.
The same could be said for Quebec. If the francophone majority lost an organization, a few others could take over. If a minority community loses an organization, there is nothing, or very little, left.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
So we agree that it is a whole different story.
4 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
It's completely different.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
It's an essential distinction.
I would now like to address a second topic: services in French.
For services in the regions, a moratorium was called. Some criteria were used, but the 5% seemed to cause a great deal of problems. If the minority population accounted for less than 5% of the province's total population, it lost its services; a truck came to get the desks and everything else. In its wisdom, the government has put in place a moratorium and is in the process of holding consultations and reviewing all of that. This 5% criterion can play a role. It is not what eliminates the services, but it can be a factor.
The consultation helps determine what other essential things should exist in the communities. Basically, those analyses and consultations have shown that there were other essential things, such as francophone schools and community centres. We must think about the vitality and sustainability of communities. It's not just the 5% figure. If francophone immigration drops to 2% when it was 4% before, the population of the official language minority communities will shrink and automatically represent less than 5% of the total population. Let's scrap it.
Let's talk about the facts now. This relationship is very important. It is important to figure out how the communities will ensure their success. This should be talked about in the consultations on French-language services.
I know I do not ask a lot of questions, but I make a lot of comments.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
You have actually asked some excellent questions so far.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
This brings me to my most important question.
What do you think the solutions are? If, tomorrow morning, you were in government—not the old one, but the current one—what would you do to fulfill your mandate?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
Having lived in small francophone communities in Nunavut and elsewhere in Canada, I can tell you that, in all francophone communities outside Quebec, the action is in community organizations. It's clear. Community organizations play an absolutely vital role in the sustainability of our organizations. People often begin to develop organizational capacities in those organizations. This is often where people, having developed skills, have the momentum to become entrepreneurs and share what they have acquired with the community.
I live in Ontario. I can tell you that the structure of the community sector is very powerful there. It is the lifeblood of our community. The situation is the same elsewhere. Whether in the Northwest Territories, the Yukon, Saskatchewan or Manitoba with the Pluri-elles organization, the community sector is the lifeblood of francophone communities. It is very important to invest in those sectors.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
So you need funding to do your work on the ground, in francophone minority communities.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
Absolutely
4:05 p.m.
Representative, Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences
The funding is minimal, and Canadian Heritage could provide it. The department funds many other francophone organizations that are part of the education continuum.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for your remarks, Mr. Samson.
More generally, how do you manage to identify clients and their needs? How do you determine that a particular community in Saskatchewan, for example, needs a literacy program or other training?
4:05 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
Let me give you an example. In the last international assessment of essential skills, Canada provided the largest cohort of respondents. In fact, 27,000 people were surveyed in Canada, compared to 5,000 in the United States. Data from the international survey showed three overrepresentations in three francophone communities in Canada: New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba.
We therefore have clear evidence on levels of literacy, numeracy and digital literacy. In Ontario, 48% of francophones are level 1 and level 2 functionally illiterate. The level 1 functionally illiterate can barely read a very simple article. The level 2 functionally illiterate are lost if there is any complexity. In terms of numeracy, 56% of francophones in Ontario are functionally innumerate. Finally, 78% of francophones in Ontario are functionally illiterate in terms of digital literacy.
Think about it: our governments increasingly want access to services through the Internet, but 78% of Ontario's francophones are functionally illiterate. I'm sorry, ladies and gentlemen, but we have a big problem on our hands. Those most affected are our seniors. We must provide them with minimum support so that they can access services.
We have clear evidence, and we are also working with Statistics Canada. We have worked with Statistics Canada to create a link between essential skills, economic development, and social development in some communities. So we have data that help us know exactly where the problems are in certain communities.
Extrapolation also helps us. Archetypes help us determine, with some precision, the literacy level of people at a given age.
So we can use evidence to truly measure the needs of our communities. We are not throwing around figures indiscriminately. We rely on data from international surveys in which Canada has participated fully. Those data are all quite significant.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
The survey dates from 2013.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Is that how you determine the needs and their source?
4:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Coalition ontarienne de formation des adultes
We can tell you, for example, that 70% of Greater Sudbury francophones are level 1 and level 2 functionally illiterate. We can tell you that this percentage is 50% in Prescott-Russell. We can tell you what the percentage is in the Ottawa area. We have clear evidence and we can extrapolate. With the help of Statistics Canada's cross-referencing, we can provide the same type of data for Manitoba or New Brunswick, for example. Actually, I think New Brunswick has prepared a similar report to clearly define the needs of its communities and the levels of literacy.
4:10 p.m.
Representative, Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences
Yes, it has.
