Official Languages Committee on Feb. 7th, 2018

[Éric Perreault]

RESDAC's role often involved sharing information and mobilization. It is often more difficult, especially in terms of quantitative results, to say, for example, that this cost such and such an amount, gave such and such a result, and trained so many people. However, it is much easier to do so when you work by project.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Since RESDAC is a network, it does not provide services; its members do. You say that you were not able to assess all the results obtained by RESDAC members.

Were there no quantitative and qualitative measures to see the results achieved with the money you spent?

[Éric Perreault]

We had some measures, but they were much more qualitative than quantitative because of the nature of the activities. I am saying, above all, that when you invest money in projects, it's much easier to present the results.

At that time, having to choose between the two types of funding may have had an impact when the time came to make decisions.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Perreault, were you there in 2014?

Ms. Bertrand said that she was not there.

[Éric Perreault]

I was at the department, but not at the Office of Literacy and Essential Skills.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

As Ms. Bertrand said, you think those programs are very important for minority communities. They help to improve literacy and train people so that they can enter the job market, start a business, and so on.

The documents I received refer to roadmaps. There is the one for 2013-2018, and the previous one for 2008-2013. So we have been working with roadmaps for 10 years.

Can you distinguish between funds that have been allocated under core funding and those that go directly to projects?

Can you give us quantitative results that would allow us to see the difference between the two? Is there any evidence of that?

[Éric Perreault]

I do not have specific quantitative data on that. In general, we can identify the number of Canadians who have been trained under our program, or the number of organizations that have provided essential skills training.

This sort of thing was much more difficult to achieve when we provided core funding. My goal is not to criticize the latter. Core funding had some merit, but it was much harder to break down.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Other departments and agencies still provide core funding. In terms of the funding you have provided or the money you have paid to various organizations left and right, am I to understand that other departments are not able to provide quantitative results either, with respect to the money they receive?

[Éric Perreault]

I cannot comment on what other departments do, but what I mean—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

You know that various departments provide core funding to other organizations.

That did not work in your case, so how could it be done elsewhere? Is there a difference?

Ms. Bertrand, if I understand correctly, the department is reviewing its position regarding RESDAC. Is this the case?

[Monika Bertrand]

Consistent with what the department is embarking on, as I said, we agree with the recommendations. One of the complaints was about the department not having consulted or engaged with the community when the decision was taken. Going forward, our commitment is to actually have some engagement. We have an ongoing engagement with RESDAC, but in March, for example, we are also going to have a very targeted consultation with OLMC representative organizations. It's not just RESDAC; there are of course others, and we need to hear their voices. There will be a report that will be made public. Based on thorough consultations and engagement, we will take our decision going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Généreux.

It is Paul Lefebvre's turn again.

Mr. Lefebvre, you have the floor.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here today.

Ms. Bertrand, you just said that other organizations were doing the kind of work done by RESDAC. Last week, representatives from the network told us that it no longer has anyone working there other than volunteers. Could you tell me who is doing RESDAC's work right now?

[Éric Perreault]

Actually, when we say that other groups are doing the same work as RESDAC, that is not entirely accurate.

RESDAC was probably quite unique in its niche, as a national organization serving its members first and foremost. What we are saying is that there are a number of organizations across the country that provide literacy development services.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Yes, but they do not provide those services to members of official language minority communities.

[Éric Perreault]

In each province, there are still some organizations that provide services in those communities.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Is there a direct link between your office and all those provincial agencies?

[Éric Perreault]

They are not always provincial agencies.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Actually, I meant organizations.

[Éric Perreault]

There are charities. We are consulting with them all to determine the best way to invest in this area.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

In your opinion, do we need RESDAC?

[Éric Perreault]

In fact, I look forward to the consultations, to hear what communities have to say about this.

In the past, we had made decisions that, in the commissioner’s view, did not sufficiently take into account what the communities said. So we intend to listen to them before taking a position.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

My understanding is that, in 2014, the decision was to change the core funding for project funding. Suddenly, RESDAC's projects are no longer funded. RESDAC therefore no longer has funding and no longer exists or is, at the very least, in a more than precarious situation. It is waiting to see what will happen in the next few months.

As you just said, you did not hold consultations and you changed the formula. If you are the federal officials in charge of literacy and of developing literacy in our communities, have you also identified a major need for literacy?

If you decided to no longer fund RESDAC, I do not understand what the strategy was to fill that gap. The others, which Ms. Bertrand mentioned, did not exist in the official languages. What was your plan?

[Éric Perreault]

If I may, I will clarify what is meant by others. In fact, we replaced core funding with project funding. In our tenders, we have focused on a number of projects that—

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

The challenge with project funding is the following. You say that an organization must submit a funding application every time it has a new project. When an organization only does one thing, it is clear that it will never be able to survive. You have called on organizations that have various ways to raise funds. Those organizations are able to survive. They apply somewhere for a program and they receive money, and then they can go somewhere else to get more money. That's how they survive.

RESDAC focuses only on literacy in official language minority communities. Now that you provide project-based funding, after RESDAC submits two projects, you tell them they are doing the same thing. This is its very purpose. I do not understand how we can justify and support this type of strategy being applied to this type of organization.

Are you coming to the same conclusion as me?