Official Languages Committee on March 1st, 2018

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is François Choquette, I am the member for Drummond and the vice-chair of the committee.

Ms. Nolette, you talked about training for staff. You said that the roadmap would enable you to add new programs. Can you say a few words about that?

[Dolorèse Nolette]

For the time being, only the roadmap funding will enable us to set up new programs. Campus Saint-Jean receives part of the envelope set aside for post-secondary education. The Centre collégial will take money from that envelope for the early childhood education program.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Nolette, you talked about a problem you are experiencing—the fact that there is no language clause in a number of federal transfers. You talked about the health transfer. We learned yesterday that the federal government's health transfer would sustain cuts, and that is causing us great concern.

Are there any other areas where success would be possible?

As for early childhood, unless I am mistaken, the federal government is currently not providing money for it. That is a significant lack. You just said how important early childhood is to maintaining, even building, our francophone identity.

What do you think about this? Is this an area where the federal government could conclude an agreement directly with the communities?

[Albert Nolette]

I think so, and I will let my colleagues in attendance today express their point of view on the issue.

To come back to what Mr. Arseneault and Mr. Généreux raised earlier, I would say that direct funding for communities would ensure a more efficient use of funds. Right now, the funds ultimately intended for official language minority communities go through several layers of red tape. For example, the funding intended for post-secondary institutions goes from the Department of Canadian Heritage to Alberta's Department of Education, then to Alberta's Department of Higher Education, then to the University of Alberta and, finally, to Campus Saint-Jean. That's several layers of red tape.

That is just one example of many. This phenomenon has been heavily criticized. I think funding should be provided more directly to the communities in Alberta and elsewhere in Canada. When it comes to education from kindergarten to grade 12, for example, francophone school boards from across the country, which were created through provincial legislation, could conclude agreements directly with Canadian Heritage. That way, the funding provided by that department will not have to go through provincial departments, and then through school boards, before finally getting to the students. School boards are well managed. I am sure that Ms. Lachance could talk to us about the possibility of concluding those types of agreements.

In short, I feel that direct funding would be a way to ensure accountability and to avoid the money getting lost in layers of bureaucracy.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

I have very little time left. I wanted to ask everyone a question, but I will unfortunately not manage to do it.

Ms. Lachance, you said that you needed more spaces reserved for early childhood. Can you elaborate on that need? How could the federal government support you, especially in terms of infrastructure?

[Nathalie Lachance]

Our needs in infrastructure are pressing. To be able to justify what we need from a school, we use facilities that are far from being adequate. We are often talking about old schools or rather commercial buildings that were not schools to begin with. You can understand how much of a challenge it can be to create classrooms, let alone spaces for early childhood. In some of our schools, we are managing to create pre-kindergarten classes, but it is becoming increasingly complicated to obtain spaces for early childhood, since schools are already at 100% or at 120% of their capacity.

As far as potential federal support goes, we would need help establishing schools that accommodate children from early childhood to grade 12. An understanding of the importance of schools in necessary; they're at the heart of the francophone community.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Does the problem stem from the fact that Statistics Canada does not have accurate information on rights holders, and that prevents you from asking the department for more schools, or does it stem from the fact that you are still waiting for new schools you requested?

[Nathalie Lachance]

I would say that it stems from both of those issues.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Both situations are problematic.

[Nathalie Lachance]

There is also attrition stemming from the fact that a number of rights holders do not enrol their children in our schools. That is a problem across the board.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Those are challenges for you, of course.

Ms. Commance-Shulko, there is a great deal of enthusiasm for French immersion programs in British Columbia.

Is it the same here in Alberta?

There is also a problem with the teaching of French as second language. The program is somewhat problematic in British Columbia. People enrol less in French as a second language courses; they choose other languages instead.

Here, in Alberta, what are you seeing when it comes to those two programs?

[Marie Commance-Shulko]

My colleague Tamie Beattie will be here this afternoon to talk about the teaching of French as a second language, so you could put that question to her.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to a proud Acadian, Darrell Samson.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

How much time do we have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

You have six minutes.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Is that for the second round?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

No, it's for the first round. We are still in the first round.

Mr. Samson, you may go ahead with your presentation.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Have I not lost any time? Do I still have six minutes? I have not begun my presentation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Fourteen seconds have already passed.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Hello, everyone, and thank you for being here.

I am the only Acadian from Nova Scotia elected to the House of Commons. I carry all that on my shoulders because it is important to me. I worked for school boards for 31 years. Before being elected, I was the director general of all French-language schools in Nova Scotia for 11 years. I also had the distinct pleasure of working with Ms. Dolorèse Nolette for a few years. I had a lot of dealings with associations and organizations such as yours, and I would say the most important issue is early childhood. There is no doubt that this issue helps every member of the community build their identity and pride and improves the quality of education. That is the most important thing.

In Nova Scotia, when I was the director general, our system created an early childhood program, and I am proud to say that it now accepts four-year-olds. That is a big step forward.

I know there are officials from Canadian Heritage here. Someone asked earlier whether the federal government provides funding for early childhood education. I think early childhood is now one of the most important areas for Canadian Heritage, so it is possible to carry out projects with the department. The lines of communication simply have to be opened.

I have a question for anyone who would like to answer. I know my preambles can be lengthy at times and that is dangerous, and my colleagues often remind me of that, but here is the issue. I believe Alberta has just signed or will soon sign a new agreement with the federal government pertaining to early childhood. For the first time in Canadian history, there will be a clause that clearly requires funding to be allocated to the francophone community. Would someone like to speak to that?

If you were not aware, I am pleased to give you the news. I would certainly like you to make calls this afternoon and ask questions because it is extremely important to be informed. This is a first, and it will now give you an avenue to seek essential funding.

Ms. Nolette, very quickly, has the number of children in early childhood education programs increased? Moreover, are those programs offered online?

[Dolorèse Nolette]

The short answer is yes, our programs are offered both online and in a classroom setting, according to student preference. Since we are still awaiting approval from the Ministry of Advanced Education to implement our program, I cannot really comment on the real interest. We do have a very clear idea, however, of the perceived interest, so to speak.

For the past three years, we have had an agreement with Lakeland College, here in Alberta. This agreement expires on March 31. Under this agreement, the college translated its program, which was entirely online, so it could be offered in French. We think we can now offer something that is more relevant to the francophone minority community by training educators who are sensitive to interlinguistic and intercultural issues and to the realities of language development in a minority setting.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you. We just have six minutes, it will be quick.

Of course, I would like to congratulate the school board officials for their work. It is extremely important. Schools are the gathering place for the whole community and I would like to thank all the organizations that make a contribution to that in one way or another.

There is something new: for the first time, infrastructure funding is available through Infrastructure Canada. In the past, organizations always applied to Canadian Heritage for infrastructure and program funding, but it was hard to get because all the minority language communities were clamouring for it. We have now created a funding envelope for this at Infrastructure Canada and you can apply for funding. The only problem is that provincial projects will be put on a priority list. In some provinces, you have to beg to get on the list. At least you know that it exists: that will open the door to discussions for you.

As Ms. Lachance noted, the availability of spaces is a big issue. Once again, this is much more difficult for minority communities. Daycare and early childhood services are crucial. The problem is that we do not have any schools nearby. If parents truly want to send their child to a French-language school, the parents must have access to daycare before and after school. This is an extremely important argument that must be repeated as often as possible.

I can tell you that, in Nova Scotia, it is 95% due to the early childhood program that we have increased our student population by 25% across the province in the space of ten years. The total number of anglophone students has dropped by 15%, which is a 40% difference. It is true that the school board had a very good director general and very good teachers, but ultimately this was achieved by the work done on the ground.

Similarly, each of you has an extremely important role to play. I commend you and thank you for your work. We truly have a range of representatives here today, which reflects that vitality.

In closing...

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

It is my turn to thank you, Mr. Samson, because we have to move on right away to the next person, Mr. Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you very much.

I am the MP for Saint-Boniface—Saint-Vital, in Winnipeg.

I would like to pick up on what Mr. Samson was talking about. I was pleased to announce last Friday, on behalf of Minister Jean-Yves Duclos, a bilateral agreement on early childhood, between Manitoba and Canada. That same day, I believe, British Columbia announced the signing of the same kind of agreement. So Alberta has already signed it. The agreement with Manitoba is worth $47 million over three years and is intended to create 1,400 daycare spaces in the province. We are trying to determine how many of those spaces will be for francophones, but it is not easy. In any case, as Mr. Samson said, there is a clause that guarantees spaces for the francophone community. I encourage you to do your own research and to take steps to figure out what you are due.

Since no one was aware of this agreement between Alberta and Canada, I have a question about dealings in the province. Does the Alberta government have a strategic plan for early childhood? Further, what kind of relationship do your organizations have with the provincial government?

Mr. Nolette may answer first.

[Albert Nolette]

I'm sorry. The question was what kind of relationship our organizations have with the provincial government?