Evidence of meeting #3 for Official Languages in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marie-Pierre Lavoie  President, Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique
Denis Chartrand  Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones
Geoffrey Chambers  President, Quebec Community Groups Network
Sylvia Martin-Laforge  Director General, Quebec Community Groups Network
Valérie Morand  Director General, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

4:30 p.m.

Director General, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Valérie Morand

If I may complement the information, the Syrian refugees are a good example. When they landed in Canada, they had the opportunity to choose which system to send their kids through.

In New Brunswick, unfortunately, which is the only officially bilingual province of this country, that information wasn't relayed to this group, so most of them went to English school boards. There was a public outcry for that.

In Ottawa, it was a different set-up. We have a mayor who is very close to both systems, whether Catholic or public, or English and French. Therefore, the refugees were able to choose the system for their kids. That's also a new element to consider with regard to the enrolment of kids in the various systems.

4:30 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Denis Chartrand

We're talking about immigration, and where they're directed when they come into the country.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madame Lavoie, you talked about the school that is overcapacity. Now, most of the funding for education comes through the province, so it's done by per capita funding.

Are you saying that having a short-form census would allow you to negotiate in advance? When we're looking at schools, we're looking at how many students, and then you can take that back to the province.

4:30 p.m.

President, Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

How would the short form allow you to change that situation?

4:30 p.m.

President, Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique

Marie-Pierre Lavoie

It would allow us to be in a better position to build new schools. We just opened a new school two years ago, and the ministry used the formula that is used for anglophones, the majority of children. It did not take into account the growth we're experiencing in the francophone system, nor all the other categories of rights holders. On the first day the school opened, we had to have portables on site, because the school was already at overcapacity.

That is where the negotiating part would happen. We would be able to inform the ministry of how many kids could go to our school. We don't need a 400-kid school. We need a 600 or 700-kid school. That's where the difference would be.

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

With regard to some of the schools in Quebec, there are English traditional towns, and a number of northern first nations speak English. Are they part of your system or are they separate?

4:30 p.m.

President, Quebec Community Groups Network

Geoffrey Chambers

No, in many instances they attend English school boards. Our school boards are quite well organized to provide a variety of programs that target the populations, particularly first nations populations. They do a pretty good job of that.

I'd like to make one other quick point on this question of why this information is useful. School board elections in Quebec have been organized in such a way that the participation of the community has been depressed. They're badly publicized. They're put on at difficult times. There are very, very bad lists. If we had hard data about how big the population is that's entitled to vote in these elections, we'd have a tool to argue for the creation of valid lists. The lists are terrible now. I think they're kept terrible sort of intentionally to kind of suppress the population's involvement. We'd be able to have a tool to fight back on that.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg

Thank you, Mr. Chambers.

We'll go to the second round of questions. Members have five minutes each.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

March 10th, 2020 / 4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have two brief questions, and then I'm going to turn the floor over to my colleague.

Mr. Chartrand, if the number of rights holders increases, will that have a financial impact on the federal government?

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Denis Chartrand

Such an increase might have an impact on transfers under the Canada-Ontario agreement in our case, or under the Canada-British Columbia agreement, where the federal government provides additional funding to the provincial government so that minority school boards can provide more services to their communities. These are not basic services, because these are, or should be, funded by the province. It's for additional services.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I'm going to stop you right there. I'm fine with your answer.

Here is my second question. You have experienced this. You have a capacity of 314 students, but there are 718 students. In concrete terms, how can you fund that, day in and day out? The provincial government cannot give you grants for those 718 students.

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Denis Chartrand

That's an interesting question.

As Mr. Angus mentioned earlier, the school board is funded on a per capita basis.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Per student.

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Denis Chartrand

For two students, it's a certain amount, and for four students, it's double. So, if there are some 700 students—

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Or 718 students.

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Denis Chartrand

So you get 718 times the amount per student. This catches up with us when we have to pay for portables.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

For infrastructure.

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Denis Chartrand

Yes, the infrastructure, and all the extracurricular or complementary things.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you very much. Let me stop you there.

I will give the floor to Mr. d'Entremont.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg

Mr. d'Entremont, you have two and a half minutes left.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

It's not a lot.

My thanks to the witnesses for being here.

My question is along the same lines. We are seeing an increase of about 13%. I know that Nova Scotia has the only school board reporting an increase in the number of students, but what is the situation elsewhere in Canada?

4:35 p.m.

Director General, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Valérie Morand

Two-thirds of our school boards are in Ontario, because Ontario is the great bastion of francophones outside Quebec. So the increases are quite significant in Ontario. They are also significant in Nova Scotia because of the growing up in French program, which has made it possible to bring in many young francophones, who then continue their education in our system.

Ms. Risbud talked about Alberta. The province has a success story as it will celebrate 25 years of French-language education this month. There is a surge in enrolment. Numbers are going up everywhere. The increases are definitely greater in some provinces than in others in the country. You will understand that, in Nunavut, Yukon and the Northwest Territories, there are increases, of course, but that, proportionally speaking, they are not the same as in Ontario or in other provinces.

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones

Denis Chartrand

The number of French-language schools—and I'm not talking about immersion here—is increasing almost everywhere in Canada, more specifically in Ontario, as Ms. Morand mentioned.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Chris d'Entremont Conservative West Nova, NS

The big question now is about how the census is going to work and whether Statistics Canada is really going to meet the needs of the rights holders.

Have you had an opportunity to talk to the people at Statistics Canada over the last few years? There are the criteria we have been discussing, but you have to see how they will respond to your questions or requests.