Official Languages Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 13 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

The committee is meeting on its study of the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the government’s ability to deliver information in both official languages.

Ladies and gentlemen, I have some information to give you to ensure the meeting runs smoothly.

It is 4:10 p.m. I must inform you that the hon. Jean-Yves Duclos can only prolong his presence with us until 4:45 p.m. Then, we will begin the second part.

I have a few details to give you very quickly.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. Members may have remarked that the entry to the meeting was much quicker and that they immediately entered as an active participant. However, this wasn't necessarily the case today because of technical problems.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind all participants at this meeting that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted. This fact was mentioned by Speaker Rota on September 29, 2020.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice.

I also ask that members and witnesses speak slowly to facilitate interpretation. Before speaking, don't forget to click on the microphone icon. Since we have witnesses, I have the list of people who will speak.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise the chair. Please note that we may need to suspend a few minutes, as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.

If you wish to speak, you need to click on the “raise hand” button.

Without further ado, I extend a most cordial welcome to our witnesses. First of all, we welcome the hon. Jean-Yves Duclos, the President of the Treasury Board.

Mr. Duclos, you have 10 minutes for your presentation. Afterwards, committee members will be able to ask you questions.

I would also like to welcome Roger Ermuth, assistant comptroller general of the Financial Management Sector at the Office of the Comptroller General, Carsten Quell, the executive director at the Official Languages Centre of Excellence, and Tolga Yalkin, assistant deputy minister at Workplace Policies and Services.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Duclos.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll take less than 10 minutes because I'm going to shorten my speech a bit to leave more time for discussion and questions. I'll also try to speak slowly even if it's not really my tendency.

First of all, I'd like to thank the members of the committee for their invitation. This is an opportunity for me and for us to talk about the importance of official languages, an important issue for our government, and one that is close to my heart as the member of Parliament for Quebec City, the riding that is essentially the capital of French North America, but also as a francophone, a proud Quebecker and a proud Canadian.

As you said, I am fortunate to be accompanied by Tolga Yalkin, Carsten Quell and Roger Ermuth, whom you have already introduced and who will be able to provide any clarification you may require.

As you know, bilingualism is at the heart of both the history and the identity of our great and beautiful country. In fact, it's thanks to the union of the two founding peoples, French and English, that Canada came into being a long time ago, in association with the indigenous peoples and with respect—which we want to increase, of course—for them.

Very early on in the history of this Confederation, Montreal patron of the arts David Stewart recognized this equality in a quotation that presents us with the advantages that this dual identity, this bilingualism, grants to Canadians: “Canada is the heir to the two great traditional civilizations of Western Europe. It is its responsibility to develop them, and it should be proud of it.”

Indeed, we have reason to be proud of it. In fact, more than 50 years ago, with the adoption of the Official Languages Act, we took another step forward in affirming, protecting and promoting the bilingual character of Canada. Today, millions of Canadians across the country can flourish and contribute to our collective success in the language of their choice. Canadians understand that official bilingualism is an asset for them and for us in many ways.

For example, in addition to being at the heart of our culture, our history and our collective identity, the French language and the presence of millions of francophones and francophiles from coast to coast to coast are an undeniable added value for our country on the international scene. This richness allows us to participate actively in the debates and the mission of the International Organisation of La Francophonie and to maintain privileged relations with all French-speaking countries around the world.

In 2021, we also understand that, in an increasingly globalized society, bilingualism is an important competitive advantage for Canada. In fact, Jean Johnson, president of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, clearly emphasized this in a recent article in the Toronto Star. According to Mr. Johnson, at a time when intolerance is unfortunately on the rise, it is important to reaffirm that our two official languages, our commitment to reconciliation with indigenous peoples and our diversity are part of what has made us successful over the years.

Strengthening our official languages, which fosters openness but also respect for differences, is as much a matter of the past as it is of the present and future of Canada. That is why the government is committed to modernizing the Official Languages Regulations under Part IV of the Official Languages Act. These regulations are very important because they cover the language obligations of more than 10,000 federal points of service across the country, and were last updated almost 30 years ago.

Last year, the government also marked the 50th anniversary of the Official Languages Act and made significant changes to the Official Languages Regulations. As a result of these changes, Canadians now have better access to federal services in both official languages than ever before.

Allow me to give you a few examples. These amendments allow for the designation of some 700 points of service across the country as bilingual points of service. Close to 145,000 Canadians living outside major urban centres will now have access to a Service Canada office in the official language of their choice. More than 60,000 others will have access to RCMP public safety services in the official language of their choice. In addition, services will now be provided in English and French at airports and train stations in all provincial capitals.

As this committee is aware, official language minority communities were very concerned that the previous method of calculating demand for services did not include enough people who spoke the minority official language, including members of bilingual families or immigrants. Our new, more inclusive method of calculation takes into account all of these people, and the next census will therefore be more representative of the realities experienced by francophones outside Quebec and anglophones in Quebec.

I would like to re-emphasize that respect for official languages is both a priority and an obligation for the Government of Canada. Every day, federal public servants provide services to Canadians and communicate with them in the official language of their choice. When it comes to creating an environment conducive to the use of both official languages, such as holding bilingual meetings today, the Public Service Employee Survey shows that most employees feel that their managers are succeeding in doing so. That said, we know very well that it is not a perfect system. We can and must always do better. The same survey also shows that there is still a lot of work to be done.

For an organization the size of the public service, making changes and improvements can obviously be complex and difficult, especially in the midst of a pandemic. For example, at the onset of the current health crisis, hundreds of thousands of public servants moved from their desks to makeshift desks in their living rooms, bedrooms or kitchens in a matter of days.

It was a massive shift. I'm sure many of my honourable colleagues will sympathize, given our own experiences and our own challenges that we faced with virtual House sittings and committee hearings.

As these public servants managed to adapt to work remotely during a time of great uncertainty, they also rolled out critical and complex programs and services to Canadians in record time.

We recognize there may have been times when managers did not address employees in their preferred language during a video meeting or other communications.

This is an unfortunate situation and should simply be corrected, and no excuses should be made. As soon as this situation was brought to our attention, we reminded all departments and agencies of their official languages obligations through the Human Resources Branch.

I have also made it my personal duty to remind all my colleagues in the council of ministers of these same obligations. I can also assure you that we are working closely with the Commissioner of Official Languages to ensure that the rights and needs of all Canadians, including those of public service employees, are respected, even in this time of pandemic.

Finally, I would like to reaffirm our commitment to ensuring that the work environment in federal departments, agencies and organizations is not only favourable, but also conducive to bilingualism so that all government employees, wherever they are, can work in the official language of their choice.

We are committed to a Canada where everyone should—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Minister, I apologize. The time is up. We now have to move to questions from the members of the committee.

Let me remind members that, since the minister is with us until 4:45 p.m., we only have one round of questions left. All parties on the committee will have six minutes for questions.

If you wish to share your time, please say so at the beginning of your remarks.

We will begin with Mr. Blaney, who will ask the first questions.

Mr. Blaney, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I will try to share my time.

First, I would like to welcome Minister Duclos to the Standing Committee on Official Languages and to remind him that the purpose of his being here today is about the Canadian government's lack of response in terms of official languages during the pandemic.

Mr. Minister, I'm not sure who prepared you for your presentation, but I wish you could have arrived in solution mode. All the witnesses we have heard so far have told us that the federal response to the pandemic in terms of official languages is a mess, and the Commissioner has reminded us that it is a safety issue.

Take, for example, my sister, who lives in Ontario. It is important for her to have access to information in French in an emergency situation, since it is her first language.

Mr. Minister, do you recognize that Canadian bilingualism is a safety issue and that it is even more important in a crisis situation such as the one we are experiencing?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

My dear Mr. Blaney, the answer is yes. As you so rightly said, it is a safety issue.

As you also implicitly suggested, when people do not have access to the information they need to protect themselves and their loved ones, it is not only safety in a collective sense, but individual safety that is at stake.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

We want to prepare a report with recommendations. For our analysts, could you provide us with more information on the adjustments and tell us what the response was?

You mentioned that you have taken action, but it would be helpful to have more data. In any case, if it is possible, in order for us to produce a detailed report, could you share with the committee the measures taken by the Government of Canada?

We know that the health representative was speaking only in English; it was a mess and there was some labelling. A series of measures have led to minority language citizens being treated as second-class citizens.

Mr. Minister, before giving the floor to my colleague, I want to come back to public servants. An investigation by the Commissioner of Official Languages, to which you referred, also points to a major problem:

French first- and second-language linguistic insecurity was a significant challenge in all regions studied: primarily when it came to speaking but also for writing and for asking to be supervised in that language.

You are the one responsible, the official languages champion in the government. Do you recognize that francophone public servants suffer from a systemic problem, Mr. Minister?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Actually, I will correct you and then I will agree with you. We are the official languages champions in Canada. We all have a role to play.

In fact, let me congratulate all members of the committee for the strong role they play not only in understanding the problems but also in finding the solutions to those problems.

In terms of information and language insecurity, you rightly referred to the report, which was published a few weeks ago. Linguistic insecurity is experienced by everyone, including anglophones, when they try to express themselves in French. However, it is also very true for francophones, who are often afraid—

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Do you recognize that this is a systemic problem in the public service, Mr. Minister?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Whether we are francophone or anglophone, we can see very clearly what linguistic insecurity means in our personal relations with our colleagues in the House of Commons. It is the same thing among public servants.

As you were saying, linguistic insecurity is a reluctance to express oneself in one's own language or one's second language, and, sometimes, a lack of comfort in doing so. That is why insecurity must always be reduced by firm action and firm language on the part of all elected officials, and certainly on the part of the government.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I didn't get an answer to my question.

You have been here for four years, but it seems that the Canadian government, the Liberals, have just woken up. It has only been two weeks since your mandate letter made you responsible for the coordination of official languages within the government.

Mr. Chair, I am going to give my remaining time to my colleague Bernard Généreux.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor for a minute and a half.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be brief.

Mr. Duclos, thank you for being here today.

We all know that the translation bureau reports to Public Services and Procurement Canada, not to Treasury Board.

I hope the interpreters are able to hear me clearly right now. The sound quality on Zoom, which we are required to use to do our parliamentary work, is poor for all the interpreters who translate what we say every day. Many of them are literally becoming ill.

We are going to do a study on this next week. Since your department is the official languages champion in Canada, I want to know your opinion.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Généreux, I am pleased that you are doing a study on it. Mr. Blaney actually referred to it earlier.

I am very pleased that you are highlighting your sense of gratitude and admiration for the interpreters, who have been working in very difficult conditions since the beginning of the pandemic. We all have a role to play in helping them, and we should all express our gratitude to them as often as possible.

Good luck with your study. I really look forward to the results.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Mr. Généreux. That's all the time you had.

I must now give the floor to Mr. Duguid.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be sharing my time with my colleague, Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

Minister Duclos, thank you so much for being with us today. It was a great privilege to serve as your parliamentary secretary when you were our families minister, introducing transformational programs like the Canada child benefit and the national housing strategy.

Minister Duclos, in your new ministry, the Treasury Board, you play an important role in official languages, as we've heard. We're happy to have you with us as we study the impacts of the pandemic on linguistic minority communities across the country.

Can you expand on some of the proactive measures you have introduced as minister on the file since you became President of the Treasury Board, particularly over the last difficult year? Perhaps highlight some of the adjustments you've had to make during the public health crisis we've been facing.

As you know, I'm a Manitoban. Perhaps talk a little bit about French language services outside Quebec, which have been very challenged during this difficult time.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Terry.

I will very briefly mention that we did work together, you and I, to put into place a number of agreements on early learning and child care. These recognized for the first time ever the importance of child care services in the language of minority communities in Canada, including in Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario and many other places where children now have the ability—and that's officially recognized in these bilateral agreements—to start their early learning in French, or in English in Quebec.

The second thing is about what we have done.

Obviously, there's been a real sense of challenge and gratitude for the public service that has served and delivered benefits to approximately 14.4 million Canadians who, in the last year, have received some form of income support during the pandemic. That has obviously generated a lot of contacts. I will recall, briefly, the impact of the new policy that we have been implementing, in which 145,000 additional Canadians, outside of large centres, will now have access to services in their official language from Service Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Duguid, you may continue. Otherwise, Ms. Martinez Ferrada can go ahead right away.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I will continue, if I may.

Minister Duclos, thank you for joining us today. It is always a pleasure to see you and to have conversations with you. I wanted us to talk about the Borbey-Mendelsohn report on senior federal officials.

As you know, the Official Languages Act asks that the required language skills be objectively established according to the duties of each position. I would like to know what the Treasury Board is doing to ensure that senior officials can communicate with supervisors in both official languages.

Our government has appointed bilingual judges to the Supreme Court, so I think we want all senior officials to be able to speak both official languages. Could you tell us more about that?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

Yes, the report was very important. Its conclusions and the lessons for the departments concerned have already been released. Officials have started taking steps to remind their colleagues, superiors and all employees of their obligations with respect to working in the official language of their choice.

The Treasury Board Secretariat is currently studying the possibility of amending the policy to strengthen the minimum second-language proficiency requirement for bilingual supervisors in bilingual positions in designated bilingual regions.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

In terms of second-language testing, would you consider doing two official language tests instead of one?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you very much for pointing that out, because it's also part of the important discussions that the Treasury Board Secretariat is having.

Yes, there are issues related to the tests, particularly in terms of consistency and the development of competencies over time. These things are being discussed with employees and with the unions that represent them.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

In your opening statement, you talked about modernizing the Official Languages Regulations. This major update took place under our government, between 2016 and 2019.

Can you come back to that a little and tell us what the modernization consisted of?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The modernization was carried out under the direction of the minister responsible for official languages. I hear that Ms. Joly, the minister in question, will soon have the opportunity to appear before you. Clearly, we are working very hard together. Even though her agenda is very broad and, as you have seen, very ambitious, part of it is the responsibility of the Treasury Board, and I will continue to exercise my leadership in this area.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Minister and Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

Mr. Beaulieu has the floor for the next six minutes.