Official Languages Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

First, I would like to ask a rather general question.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, have you taken specific measures to solve the problems that have arisen?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. Beaulieu, thank you for your question.

Could I ask you to clarify the problems you are referring to?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Many people, even in Quebec, have told us that they have difficulty working in French during meetings with officials from different regions, because everything is done in English. Just yesterday, I was told that, on the Crisis Services Canada site, the online chat and text services only work in English. I could mention a lot of examples.

Overall, have specific measures been taken to ensure that people can receive services in French during the pandemic?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a very good question.

Let me tell you that the leadership and direction are very clear. The Treasury Board Secretariat and the Treasury Board have been very clear with other departments regarding their responsibilities. We know that the circumstances in which public servants are working vary greatly from one part of the country to another and from one department to another. Some employees work on site, while others work from home. Some work inter-regionally, while others work within the same region.

However, the message remains the same: the requirement to work in both official languages applies to everyone.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I would like to come back to the interpreter issue. We are told that new contract provisions at Public Services and Procurement Canada will undermine the quality of public services in both languages and, by the same token, the working conditions of interpreters. Translators have told us that the translation bureau's new weighting system will compromise their working conditions in a big way. To save money, the trend seems to be to lower the quality of working conditions for interpreters and translators.

Could you do something about this? We could cut back in other areas. We already have a shortage of interpreters and translators and they provide very important services. Why are we seeing this trend to want to save a few pennies at the expense of these services?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The central message is clear and must be reiterated. That's what you are doing today, Mr. Beaulieu, and I commend you for it. No compromises can be made in our ability to ensure that people can work in both official languages. The message is clear and must constantly be repeated.

During a pandemic, we must insist on this even more for health and safety reasons, as our colleague Mr. Blaney pointed out. If you would like to discuss this further, you should contact the minister responsible for Public Services and Procurement Canada, since translation and interpretation services fall under that department.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I have another example. The report on the Governor General, Ms. Payette, was sent out in English only. We don't know when it will be available in French. How do you explain that?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is a perfect example of a report that must absolutely be delivered in both official languages. The same goes for all reports to which members are entitled. It's a basic rule of our parliamentary system. I would ask the people at Rideau Hall or the team that did the investigation.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I have one last comment to make.

You spoke of the census. Since the Official Languages Act is based on the very vague criterion of “where numbers warrant”, we tend to want indicators that increase the number of francophones. More inclusive indicators have been suggested, for example. However, this skews the picture. It would be better to have a more specific criterion and ensure that the "where numbers warrant” criterion is really met, rather than changing the indicators and skewing the picture by influencing Statistics Canada.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We have some very good news in this regard, Mr. Beaulieu, and I know you will be pleased.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You're talking about the rights-holders.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's right. Some wonderful news about the short form census came out last July, at the beginning of the pandemic. The experts who worked on it are extremely pleased. It's one of the biggest advances we have seen in recent decades. The members of this committee worked very hard on this and they need to know the great news. I can see them on my screen, and I congratulate them and encourage them to keep going.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I have one last quick question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Mr. Beaulieu, but you only have five seconds left. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Boulerice, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, thank you for being with us today.

I must admit I was quite surprised by three-quarters of your speech. In the first few minutes, I felt like I was in a parallel universe with unicorns where everything was beautiful and we had no problems. Unfortunately, you have made the headlines in recent months, since the beginning of this pandemic, but not for the right reasons. It's been the same old story. In an emergency or a crisis, French goes out the window, instructions are sent out in English only, meetings are held in English only, emails and documents are in English only.

How do you explain your department's failure to ensure respect for francophone language rights?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you for raising the issue, Mr. Boulerice. As you imply, we need to work on this constantly. Linguistic minority rights and the right to work in both official languages go back several decades, but they can never be taken for granted, and certainly not in a crisis situation.

It is a collective obligation. The Treasury Board must do its job, and I, as President, must continue my efforts and strengthen my leadership in this regard. The departments and ministers concerned obviously have an obligation here, and I strongly urge you to ask them what they are doing about this issue.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Yes, but you are here with us today. So I'm going to ask you some questions in your capacity as President of the Treasury Board responsible for the public service.

You have just told my colleague Mr. Beaulieu that no compromises must be made. Compromises are, in fact, being made, but unfortunately they are always made on the backs of francophones.

Are you aware that during the pandemic, this may affect public health and safety? If, after a meeting, a public servant doesn't fully grasp what was said and misunderstandings happen, they will give the wrong instructions and that will cause errors. This could be extremely serious, above and beyond public servants' language rights.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

You put it very well, as did our colleague Mr. Blaney very eloquently earlier. It's not just a question of rights in a crisis situation, but also of safety and even health, both public and individual. That's why we must never let up, and certainly not in a crisis or pandemic situation.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

A number of measures or incentives can be put in place to promote bilingualism in the federal public service. I hope you are aware that, in several departments, the bilingualism bonus has not been increased for 28 years, since 1993.

Do you find it appropriate that a government that claims to be so supportive of bilingualism and of respect for official languages doesn't even provide a significant incentive such as a bilingualism bonus, which has been frozen for 28 years? How do you explain that?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That is another very good question about the general working conditions of public service employees.

As you know, in the past few months we have signed collective agreements covering more than 80% of public servants. We continue to work with them because it is an important clause, an important factor, in the working conditions. The clause must be negotiated with the workers' representatives, out of respect for what those workers and their unions do.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Speaking of unions, can you commit to working with those unions and with public servants to ensure that the mistakes we have seen in recent months do not happen again? What steps will you take? Are you going to act in a collaborative manner with the federal public service unions?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The colleagues who have preceded me since 2015 and myself since I started in the position, have been fortunate to have very good relations with the unions.

As you say, the work is going well because it's being done collaboratively, not only in terms of working conditions, but also in terms of providing services to Canadians, especially during this pandemic we have been experiencing since March.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Unfortunately, the Official Languages Act will not be modernized. There will just be a simple white paper.

Can you tell the committee what recommendations you gave to Ms. Joly, the minister responsible for the drafting and direction of the white paper?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Two things. First, I worked very well with my colleague Ms. Joly to prepare the next steps and was very pleased to do so. Second, you will soon see the result of our collaborative efforts. I believe you will be very happy with the results. Everything was done in a collaborative manner and with many organizations. It will change the face of Canada for the better and for a long time in terms of protecting official languages in many circumstances.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I have one last question for you.

The Access to Information Act applies to 240 federal institutions, including 82 departments and nearly 160 Crown corporations.

Can you send the Standing Committee on Official Languages a list of federal institutions subject to the Official Languages Act, by March?