That's a good question.
Evidence of meeting #20 for Official Languages in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was english.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #20 for Official Languages in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was english.
A recording is available from Parliament.
8 p.m.
Conservative
8 p.m.
Retired Professor, As an Individual
I wanted to contribute to your work by presenting more of an observation based on the data most important for the future. I'm not the one who's saying this; it's sociolinguistics, the history of languages. In his work, Nicholas Ostler has concluded that the most important factor in preserving a language group is the number of its mother-tongue speakers. In my view, you absolutely must not underestimate the importance of this critical linguistic indicator.
I used the second indicator in my brief, which I'll send you once I've translated it. Mr. Chair, the translation service did an absolutely terrible job translating my brief. They had about 10 days to do it. It almost made me ill; I tried to translate it on time for your meeting, but that was impossible if I wanted a good result. You can add that to Mr. Sabourin's observation. My father was a translator in the federal public service in Ottawa, and my wife translated Hansard for the House of Commons. It's pretty bad when you get the title of the brief wrong.
8:05 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
You're entirely right, Mr. Castonguay. We see it every day.
Briefly, if it weren't for that…
8:05 p.m.
Retired Professor, As an Individual
The only thing I can think of off the top of my head…
8:05 p.m.
Retired Professor, As an Individual
…is the proposal to require newcomers who choose to make Quebec their home and who are candidates for Canadian citizenship to demonstrate satisfactory knowledge of French.
I think that's the first step toward recognition of a significant difference between living in Quebec and living elsewhere in Canada. I'm convinced that, if a survey were conducted on the issue, 90% of Quebecers would respond that newcomers should be able to understand the debates taking place in the host population, their host society, and those debates are largely conducted in French.
8:05 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Castonguay.
Mr. Chair, I don't know whether I have a little more time for another witness?
8:05 p.m.
Liberal
8:05 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Mr. Sabourin, 15 seconds for a quick answer. It's unfortunate, but time is limited, even in this committee.
8:05 p.m.
Doctor in Demography, As an Individual
That's all right because I speak quickly.
8:05 p.m.
Liberal
8:05 p.m.
Doctor in Demography, As an Individual
Canadian language planning has to change. That's the first and last thing I would say, since I have no time. There should be a shift from a principle of personality to the principle of territoriality.
8:05 p.m.
Conservative
8:05 p.m.
Doctor in Demography, As an Individual
Exactly. That would already be a step forward.
8:05 p.m.
Conservative
8:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you very much.
Ms. Martinez Ferrada, you have the next five minutes.
8:05 p.m.
Liberal
Soraya Martinez Ferrada Liberal Hochelaga, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the witnesses for being with us this evening.
I'll ask my questions right off the bat since we don't have a lot of time. I wanted to go back to immigration. Mr. Sabourin, perhaps you could answer first.
Mr. Castonguay, I understand the immigration question. Sometimes people don't see it, but I myself am an immigrant, and I learned French. As I always say, I'm a Bill 101 girl. Apart from Quebec, I also lived in Vancouver, where I attended a French immersion school. I'm certain that the future of French will be secured by francophone immigration, but also by better francization.
We heard from Senator Serge Joyal as part of this study last week. He told us that the demographic issue was important to the future of our francophone demography, as well as the birth rate relative to the immigration rate.
Do you agree with this principle of more targeted francophone immigration, particularly outside Quebec? Do we perhaps need more targeted immigration in Quebec's regions, and should we ensure that more extensive francization is done, particularly in economic immigration, which we also need in Quebec?
What do you say, Mr. Sabourin?
8:05 p.m.
Doctor in Demography, As an Individual
That's a good question, one that can be divided into a number of components. You're asking whether we can rely on francophone immigration, immigrant francization and regionalized integration. Can we have immigrants who speak French? Will they go and live where we tell them to go?
It's no simple matter. It looks good on paper, but it's hard to manage. Regionalized immigration has been a puzzle for decades. We try to encourage immigrants to go and live anywhere across Canada since we need population everywhere, but immigrants are concentrated in major cities such as Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver and face an initial challenge…
8:10 p.m.
Liberal
Soraya Martinez Ferrada Liberal Hochelaga, QC
Mr. Sabourin, on that subject, I'd suggest you take a look at pilot projects conducted in other countries, on regional immigration in particular, but from a family standpoint. The reason immigrants don't stay in the regions is that they don't have a family network. You absolutely have to consider…
8:10 p.m.
Doctor in Demography, As an Individual
You're absolutely right. I'm not saying it's completely impossible, but it's really difficult and calls for some serious thinking.
They're not just looking for an available job in the right place; it's more than that. There are the immigrant networks, all kinds of things, the whole culture. A variety of cultures coexist in Montreal, for example. Immigrants look for that because it makes them feel somewhat at home.
You have to consider all that. There's also the idea that francophone immigration will save francophones outside Quebec. You have to beware of that notion. Francophones arriving in Canada will be subjected to the same pressures francophones outside Quebec now feel. They'll also be under pressure to switch to English and will undergo the same linguistic assimilation that francophones outside Quebec experience.
It's a short-term solution, a kind of antibody injection, as it were, but it won't solve the problem in the medium or long term.
Mr. Castonguay has something to add.
8:10 p.m.
Liberal
Soraya Martinez Ferrada Liberal Hochelaga, QC
Mr. Castonguay, perhaps you should clarify in your answer how important Quebec's francophone demographic weight is in the rest of Canada.
Would you like to comment on that?
8:10 p.m.
Retired Professor, As an Individual
I'd rather comment further on immigration outside Quebec. Francophone immigration to Quebec definitely has the potential to expand and persist, to contribute permanently to French in Quebec and thus in Canada.
As I confirm in my brief, native Quebecers who migrate outside Quebec, in the same way international immigrants migrate to other provinces, become anglicized, starting in the first generation, at virtually the same rate as their host francophone society.
The example I cite is more than an example; it's a general rule. In British Columbia, the anglicization rate of Quebec immigrants—and half the francophone population in British Columbia are originally from Quebec—is 71% among those who have reached adulthood. The rate for international francophone immigrants is 65%. The majority in fact contributes to the demographics of the English-language population.