Official Languages Committee on March 9th, 2021

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Will the next census enable us to paint a more accurate picture?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

In 2022, we will have the great privilege of conducting a survey on official language minority populations. It will be a very detailed questionnaire on just about every dimension of the population's characteristics, and the information gathered can be integrated with the 2021 census data for the same people.

This will give us a much more complete picture of these practices, behaviours and characteristics everywhere in Canada, except for francophones in Quebec, because they, unfortunately, are not part of the target population. But it will definitely help for the French-language population outside Quebec, and not only for mother tongue and language used at home.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Okay.

If it's all right with you, I'd like to return to that much-discussed rate of 66% on Montreal Island, owing to the anglophone shift to the outskirts.

You said there wasn't a decline. Perhaps I misunderstood what you said. Did you say there was no decline on Montreal Island because the demographics had been changing by language?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

For a long time, we tended to focus on what was happening only on the island. What we found this time was much more migration. Even French-language immigrants no longer automatically go through Montreal. They go directly to Laval or the South Shore, which partly explains why French has remained stable as the main language on Montreal Island.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

Thank you, Mr. Corbeil.

Given when we started and the minor technical problems, we're going to do a final round of questions, for two and a half minutes each. After Mr. Beaulieu, it will be Mr. Boulerice's turn.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'll begin by responding briefly to Mr. Arseneault. On the one hand, if there is no decline as such in the main language spoken at home in Montreal, there certainly is one in the greater Montreal area. For example, Laval is becoming anglicized more quickly at the moment. There is also anglicization on the South Shore.

I'd also like to make a minor correction. Earlier, my colleague seemed to be saying that the mother tongue indicator should be excluded. I don't think we need to be limited to this at all. It's a medium or long-term indicator.

When a mother changes the mother tongue used at home, it becomes the mother tongue of the next generation. This need not be alarming, but if we were to transfer this principle to the environment, some people would say the same thing about a climate emergency and they would raise the alarm. With the environment as with language, the precautionary principle needs to be applied, and sticking your head in the sand is definitely not the answer.

Mr. Corbeil, you spoke about several factors that had an influence on the situation. The factor I consider central is the common public language. If French is the common public language, more newcomers would learn French and integrate.

Do you agree?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Absolutely. It's a huge challenge, because we know full well that for immigrants, it's not because you have another language as a mother tongue or that you speak that other language most often at home that you won't have a preference for English or won't turn towards English.

The language used in the public space is definitely a challenge. Perhaps the greatest challenge is to cope with this form of bilingualization that is becoming relatively widespread in the greater Montreal area. What needs to be done is to try and understand why it is happening.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Exactly.

I believe that the intent of Bill 101 was to make French the common language, while the Official Languages Act was more for institutional bilingualism.

So if a newcomer had a choice between the two, given that in Canada and the United States the majority speak English, there's a natural tendency to opt for English. As Bill 101 was gradually weakened and full bilingualism reappeared—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Beaulieu, Your speaking time is up. Thank you very much.

We are now beginning the final round of questions.

Mr. Boulerice, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I fully share my colleagues' concerns about applying the precautionary principle. I too rely on science-based decisions, facts and meaningful data. That too is part of our discussions and our analysis.

To return to you, Mr. Corbeil, what do you believe are the most critical factors for the evolution of the state of French in Quebec and Canada? I imagine that you would tell me it depends on the regions. However, is it immigration, the language mainly spoken at home, the language of work, or rather the language transfers that we spoke about earlier this evening?

Where, in fact, do we need to take action to be as effective as possible?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Answering this question in so little time would be rather tricky. I would say that caution is needed.

Is there a political remedy or program that would enable us to take action with respect to language transfers? I personally don't know of any, and they are complex.

Not only that, but it's important to understand that the number of immigrants who do not know French when they arrive in Quebec seems to have increased in recent years. When immigrants come to Quebec and know only English, that definitely has an influence on the language they will be inclined to use in the public space.

I think that it's also fairly obvious that strengthening the educational trajectory from early childhood through to postsecondary would be very effective outside Quebec, on condition of course that it is attached to immigration.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

For francophone communities outside Quebec that are in a highly minority situation, would a focus on francophone immigration not be the best approach at the moment?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

For Canada outside Quebec, everyone agrees on the importance of immigration to at least make it possible to stabilize and revitalize francophone communities. The same is true of schools.

I think that immigration should play a very important role, provided that enough immigrants are available.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Boulerice.

Thank you very much, Mr. Corbeil.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chair, before Mr. Corbeil leaves us, I'd like to remind him that if he would like to add some information after time has run out, he could send it in writing to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Understood. Thank you.

Before giving the floor to Mr. Beaulieu, I'd like, on behalf of the committee members and myself, to thank Mr. Jean-Pierre Corbeil for having accepted our invitation and for his contribution to the study we are conducting.

May I remind you that Mr. Jean-Pierre Corbeil is the assistant director, diversity and sociocultural statistics, at Statistics Canada.

We thank you once again for your intervention, Mr. Corbeil.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Thank you. Good evening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you. It was a pleasure.

And now, please go ahead Mr. Beaulieu, before we welcome our next witnesses.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'll be very brief.

I have two routine motions, to be introduced in different committees. Can I introduce one here?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes. You can always bring a motion, but you know that—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I can bring it if there is unanimity; otherwise I will do it later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

What I want to say is that these motions were not tabled with 24 to 48 hours' notice.

You can just file these notices of motion. There will be no debate.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

They were tabled with notice; I'm sure of it.