Official Languages Committee on April 27th, 2021

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It seems that about 40% of francophones outside Quebec transfer to English. This should also be a concern.

Ms. Forest, with respect to immigration, you said that we should take into account language transfers. Charles Castonguay, who wrote a brief and who came to speak to us, studied this very specific issue. He found that even Quebeckers who move away from Quebec quickly come close to the rate of language transfer to English for francophones in general, which is nearly 40%.

If all we're doing is adding more French-speaking immigrants and the immigrants are transferring to English, that strikes me as an issue. Shouldn't this factor be looked at more, as you said?

[Mariève Forest]

If immigrants have the same language behaviour, we'll have ongoing, if not growing, demographic issues. We don't really know what the next census will show us. Are language transfers currently more prevalent? We'll know soon.

This dynamic hasn't been given much consideration. If we welcome only French-speaking immigrants and the next generation speaks English, this won't resolve the issue.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I have one last quick question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Sorry, Mr. Beaulieu, but your time is up.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Mr. Dupuis, I know that one of my colleagues has already spoken about this, but I want to follow up on the daycare issue.

It's widely acknowledged that languages are best learned at a young age. For example, my mother is the reason that Greek is my first language and that I was able to learn it at such a young age, even here in Thompson, where there's no Greek community. A daycare program is a historic opportunity for bilingualism in Canada. This is a serious opportunity to train early childhood educators, to fund the opening of French daycares and to meet the demand across the country. The budget cuts at Laurentian University and the University of Alberta's Campus Saint-Jean are coming at the worst possible time.

What would you say to the government, which is standing idly by in the face of these closures and which has overlooked the daycare issue in its agenda?

[Alain Dupuis]

I hope that this isn't an oversight and that it will be part of the mandate. However, I suggest that the committee ask Minister Hussen to confirm his commitment to the terms of the new program. It won't take much of the billions of dollars to resolve the issue of access to French-language daycare. However, this matter must be considered at the outset.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you.

Ms. Forest, do you have anything to add?

[Mariève Forest]

No. I'm sorry, but I haven't studied the daycare issue, so I'd rather not comment on it.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Did you want to make any general comments or perhaps raise an issue that has not come up today?

[Mariève Forest]

Yes. As far as the range of training programs is concerned, it's reasonable to think that institutions would benefit from introducing early education programs. They have the necessary resources; they just need more support. Cohorts can be small, so institutions have trouble offering these types of programs over the long term.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton and Ms. Forest.

We are now beginning another five-minute round. I assume Mr. Williamson or Mr. Blaney will go first.

Mr. Williamson, you may go ahead.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Go ahead, Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Chair, I've been lucky enough to be in your position and chair the Standing Committee on Official Languages. I was very proud when Stephen Harper's Conservative government introduced a program to specifically support language communities.

Members will recall Bernard Lord, who helped develop the road map to support communities and, above all, a program to support minority communities in the area of education. Unfortunately, when the Liberals came to power in 2015, it took them a long time to bring back the language rights support program. They later reinstated the court challenges program. Precious years were lost in the meantime.

For members on this side, it's important that the federal government be there when communities need help. That's the case with Laurentian University, which is in need of special support from the government; for that reason, we will be looking into the issue. Conservative members understand the importance of doing more than just talking a good game. I agree with the FCFA. The white paper contains some great stuff, but what is happening on the ground in the meantime? French is declining and post-secondary institutions offering second-language programs, especially in French, are unravelling. Laurentian University, the University of Alberta's Campus Saint-Jean and Université de Moncton all come to mind.

Mr. Jedwab, you know how important the English-speaking community is to Quebec. This may be more of a provincial concern, but what is the best way to attract French speakers to anglophone CEGEPs and universities?

Can you share your thoughts on that?

[Jack Jedwab]

I will comment on French speakers because the bulk of francophones in Quebec, particularly in Montreal, want to learn English.

The problem arises in high school, where English instruction does not seem to be adequate for a certain number of francophones. That is probably one of the reasons why, in the era of globalization, some francophones wish to continue their education in English and become more proficient in English. In Quebec's case, the answer is to enhance the English courses offered in high school.

Nevertheless, that poses a challenge, because as soon as people have better English skills, they have better access to CEGEPs.

It's a complicated issue, but there is another solution, one that the CEGEPs, themselves, would probably have to implement. It requires CEGEPs to strike a better balance in the education they offer in both languages, including for English speakers in Quebec interested in learning French and becoming fluent.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Yes, you are right, Mr. Jedwab. Students already learn English in francophone high schools. In fact, people often say that a French speaker has to be bilingual already in order to get into an anglophone CEGEP, but that has more to do with globalization, as you mentioned. Our teaching institutions are already doing a very good job when it comes to second language instruction.

I have a follow-up question.

The challenge is quite clear in Quebec. Does the federal government have a role to play in supporting institutions that promote French in Quebec and elsewhere? The Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste comes to mind. Do you think the federal government could decide that the organization plays an important role in helping French thrive?

[Jack Jedwab]

I think it depends on the programs, rather than the actual organization.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Of course. That's a very good answer.

[Jack Jedwab]

Programs should determine, on the basis of the terms of reference, which organizations receive funding, be it the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste or another organization.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Yes, it should be based on the programs and services they offer. Thank you.

If I have enough time, I'd like to ask the FCFA representatives one last question. I'd like to hear your take on the role the federal government should play in the Laurentian University matter. Mr. Dupuis, everyone knows the situation is critical.

What do you expect the federal government to do in terms of supporting post-secondary institutions and preserving their vitality, specifically in northern Ontario?

[Alain Dupuis]

Right now, the community is rallying behind a proposal to establish a French-language university in northern Ontario. I hope the federal government gives the new institution start-up funding so it can offer most of the programs that were cancelled, and keep the teachers and students. There is not much time. The spring semester could be cancelled, but I hope that, come September, students will be able to take French-language programs in Sudbury.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Dupuis, do you think the federal government should take the lead in the Laurentian University matter, to make sure resources are not lost, but transferred to an institution established by and for the francophone community, as you so eloquently put it?

[Alain Dupuis]

Certainly, the federal government has a role to play, but it has to work with the province, which also has to decide on the model it will support. I think both levels of government need to work together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Dupuis.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

We now go to Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

It is your turn for five minutes.