Evidence of meeting #28 for Official Languages in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was french.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Mr. Chair, I want to thank Ms. Forest for the response.
Since I'm sharing my time with my colleague, Mr. Williamson, I must stop here.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
John Williamson Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB
I thought that Mr. Godin would make use of all the time. I'll let him speak.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank Mr. Williamson.
I have a quick question for Mr. Jedwab.
Mr. Jedwab, you spoke about targets being poorly defined. How would you best advise us to define our targets before promoting the protection of the French language?
4:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Immigration and Identities, Association for Canadian Studies and Canadian Institute for Identities and Migration, As an Individual
In the case that Mr. Dupuis referred to, a very specific target was set for immigration.
You must establish the resources and the process to reach this target. Don't create targets that are too vague because they're open to interpretation. The targets must be more specific.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you.
Mr. Arseneault, you have the floor for the next five minutes.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I've had the opportunity to serve on the Standing Committee on Official Languages since 2015. Some witnesses have appeared several times. The FCFA representatives have come often since 2015. They came particularly often in 2018, 2019 and 2020.
I'm thinking of the benefits that linguistic minorities in the country will obtain from the census that my colleague, Mr. Lefebvre, referred to.
In the past, in an effort to help language communities, some governments chose to make cuts in the court challenges program. The current government has chosen to include it in future legislation. This is clearly written in the white paper. Some governments chose to wait before funding universities. This government has chosen to fund them. In the past, other governments chose to stick to the short census form, which included a brief question about where francophones outside Quebec lived.
I want to speak to the FCFA representative.
What was your reaction when you heard that the 2021 census would fully comply with section 23 of the charter, through a long form?
I want you to give a short answer, because I have several questions.
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Finally!
Ha, ha!
This remained unresolved for so long. We've been trying to get this census for years.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you.
I want to thank all the stakeholders, but the FCFA played a major role in this.
I know that. I've been participating in this committee for a long time. The FCFA has met one-on-one with various members many times since 2018, and more often in 2019 and 2020, in our offices in Ottawa, in the good old days before the pandemic.
I want to hear from Mr. Johnson, but unfortunately that isn't possible.
Mr. Dupuis, when you read the white paper, you saw each item. Can you briefly describe what the FCFA was saying at that time?
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Finally, but we need a bill. We look forward to seeing these intentions reflected in the bill very soon.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
I want to speak to everyone.
I'll come back to this. Get ready, Ms. Forest. I have some questions about the top three priorities in the white paper, in your opinion.
Ms. Forest, first of all, I think that we invited you too early, because a document must be provided later. In any case, you'll send the document to the committee when it's available, whenever that may be.
You said earlier that 2% of people whose first official language spoken, or FOLS, is French, attend university. Is that right?
4:40 p.m.
Sociologist, President and Founder of Sociopol, Visiting Professor at the University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Not quite, but I understand the confusion, because the figures go by fast.
This figure represents the 2% of people who studied in French in 2018-19 at the post-secondary level, which includes colleges and universities.
4:40 p.m.
Sociologist, President and Founder of Sociopol, Visiting Professor at the University of Ottawa, As an Individual
We couldn't determine what percentage of these people spoke French as their first language.
That said, we had another statistic, which I'm trying to remember. If I recall correctly, of the 2015 graduates, 37% of people whose first language is French studied in French, outside Quebec, while 97% of people whose first language is English studied in English. This shows a major discrepancy. In Quebec, the issue isn't really the same for anglophones.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
We can't say that the 2% is made up solely of people whose first language is French. It could be a mix of English-speaking students and bilingual people who come to study in French. Is that right?
4:40 p.m.
Sociologist, President and Founder of Sociopol, Visiting Professor at the University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Yes. Many of these people are francophiles. I can confirm that there are many francophiles, because colleges and universities provide French programs. However, in general, there aren't any immersion programs, so the student populations are often mixed.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Perfect, thank you.
I want to come back to the budget issue, which my colleague Mr. Godin touched on. The budget announced $121 million for francophone universities outside Quebec. How can we ensure that our francophones are proud to attend these universities?
How can this money in the budget help our post-secondary institutions?
4:40 p.m.
Sociologist, President and Founder of Sociopol, Visiting Professor at the University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Wow!
So many things could be done, such as developing programs. When a university's options are insufficient, people won't necessarily want to go there.
Scholarships are a significant incentive, because English has a very strong pull.
Both of these measures could be implemented.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Ms. Forest.
The next speakers will have even less time to talk.
Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC
That's fine.
We're talking about setting specific goals. Mr. Dupuis spoke about increasing the demographic weight of francophones. That's good. The action plan for official languages 2018-23: investing in our future talks about maintaining the demographic weight of people whose first language is French, which I think was about 4%. Wouldn't it be better to look at the language used at home and to take into account language transfers?
My question is for Mr. Dupuis or Ms. Forest.
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
For us, what matters isn't the language spoken at home, but rather French-speaking Canadians. Of course, we're talking about 2.7 million people who live part of their daily lives in French. That would be our definition.
Yes, the demographic weight must be increased. We're seeing a decline, so this mustn't only be stabilized, but we also need to talk about a fix. The target after 2023 will need to be much more ambitious, in my opinion.