Official Languages Committee on April 27th, 2021

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

My first question is for the FCFA representatives and Ms. Forest. If I have enough time after that, I'll ask Mr. Jedwab a question.

Mr. Dupuis, I want to revisit immigration.

Last year, just before the pandemic, the government released its immigration levels plan. The FCFA applauded the government's target for francophone immigration. We built a true francophone immigration corridor, and increased the number of admissions under the express entry program. You have been supportive of actions we have taken, so I want to thank you for acknowledging the government's efforts.

As you know, we have a number of pilot projects under way, including in the Atlantic provinces and in rural areas.

We have a common target of achieving 4% francophone immigration. Perhaps we will beat it; we can always dream.

What other measures or programs could the government put in place to meet the target, if not beat it?

[Alain Dupuis]

First, having immigration corridors to address shortages in specific fields is extremely important. The government is planning to create an immigration corridor to recruit francophone and French-language teachers. Health care and early childhood education are also areas in need of francophones. Provincial and territorial governments are on the hunt for bilingual workers. In light of all that, tying immigration to francophone labour needs is a win-win.

Something else I was pleased to see in the white paper was the government's commitment to establish a framework for the first-ever francophone immigration policy. It is essential that the policy be developed jointly with the communities, as co-creators. The policy should pave the way to doing things differently and implementing measures that are not necessarily applicable to anglophones. The government's approach has always been to establish an immigration program first and to add a francophone component afterwards. Going forward, it will be possible to give greater consideration to recruitment, promotion, international students and guidance to help temporary foreign workers become permanent residents.

This is an opportunity for a holistic approach to francophone immigration. The policy announcement and similar new tools make us very hopeful.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

That leads into my question for Ms. Forest.

Ms. Forest, earlier, you spoke about immigrant retention. I found your comments quite compelling. I actually had a conversation about that with FCFA representatives back when I was the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. An immigrant who is alone will be less inclined to stay in the community where they first arrived in Canada. The issue has more to do with the retention of immigrants than with their settlement and integration.

Support for the family reunification of immigrants could go a long way towards the retention of francophones, especially in regions, but also in larger urban centres like Montreal.

Do you have any other suggestions to help with that, Ms. Forest?

If you keep your answer brief, I'll have time to ask Mr. Jedwab a question.

[Mariève Forest]

I'll do my best.

I'll start by putting the issue in context, if I may. The reason I brought up retention is this. If immigrants adopt the same language behaviours as Canadian-born francophones, language retention will pose a challenge. I wasn't saying that language retention is more of a problem among immigrants.

Now, I'll circle back to your first question about programs. I think more could be done to mobilize temporary residents. We recently conducted a study showing that most of the francophones who were not born in the country and had come to Yukon were temporary residents. However, we aren't able to guide or support them in becoming permanent residents. There's still a lot to do on that front, so it's a promising avenue.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 40 seconds.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Jedwab, when you appeared before the committee a year or two ago, you said that linguistic duality was “a foundational proposition”, one that was “fundamental to our country, its continuity and its cohesion.”

How can we achieve that goal if the proportion of francophones within Canada's population is declining?

[Jack Jedwab]

An effort is needed to increase the percentage of Canadians who speak French outside Quebec. For example, I think a lot more could be done to encourage anglophones in Ottawa, the national capital region, to become bilingual. It requires finding direct and indirect ways to promote French. A national ad campaign could even work. Seldom do I see ads on the public broadcaster's network that are aimed at the country's anglophones to promote the importance of learning French.

Personally, I am not satisfied with the level of bilingualism among anglophones outside Quebec.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Jedwab. You showed tremendous discipline.

We have time for another quick round. Our vice-chair Mr. Blaney asked me to split the remaining time as equally as possible, so each party represented on the committee will have two minutes.

The Conservative Party will start off the round.

Mr. Williamson, you may go ahead. You have two minutes.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a simple question for Mr. Dupuis. On second thought, it may not be quite that simple.

I am from New Brunswick, where we have French-language schools and English-language schools. No one here ever really says that French-language schools should not receive support. It is an argument you hear in other places, though, Ontario and Alberta, for instance. Our province, however, doesn't have as much money as Alberta and Ontario do. Why, then, is the message different?

What can the federal government do to change things?

[Alain Dupuis]

That's quite the question.

I think it's time for the federal government to sit down with the provinces, territories and communities to think about and discuss what more we can do collectively. It's time to stop looking at the issue through the jurisdictional lens. Supporting Canada's francophone community requires partnership and commitment. We want to see all three parties—the communities, the provinces and territories, and the federal government—thinking about the future of official languages together and working in conjunction with one another.

No one is against official languages, but we must find ways to advance French and francophone interests in the future, for the next generation. It's a matter of national unity.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Jedwab, do you have anything to add?

I have 30 seconds left.

[Jack Jedwab]

Which topic would you like me to comment on?

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

In New Brunswick, a maritime province, we have French-language schools and English-language schools, but we don't have the same problem other places seem to have in terms of supporting French-language schools.

Why do you think that is? What can we do on a national level to remedy that?

[Jack Jedwab]

I don't think the situations of communities across the country are entirely symmetrical. We can't compare the circumstances of anglophones who live in certain parts of Quebec with the circumstances of francophones living in Chicoutimi or even New Brunswick. I know it's nice to have a national plan that relies on a symmetrical approach to foster as much equality as possible, but proportionality should really be applied. Some communities are more vulnerable than others, so it's important to take the level of vulnerability into account to determine where resources are needed to help more vulnerable communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Jedwab.

Ms. Lalonde, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I will take advantage of these two minutes to ask Mr. Jedwab a question.

We know that the demographic weight of francophones in Quebec is declining. But we have heard that the demographic weight of anglophones in Quebec is also declining, to the benefit of speakers of third languages. You referred to this earlier.

What is the influence of third languages on the vitality of the French language in Quebec?

[Jack Jedwab]

In terms of allophones, that is to say those who speak a third language, a large number of those who define themselves as allophones are able to speak French. I think the issue is more about determining how to include them in the definition of francophones.

Some definitions are more restrictive and others are broader in terms of who is included in the category of francophones. The same applies to defining who is anglophone. Under the most restrictive definition, a person's mother tongue must be French to be considered a francophone. This may well limit the number of francophones, since it excludes from the definition people with a third language as their mother tongue even though French is the language they speak most often at home. Consider the growing number of people with Arabic as their mother tongue and French as their second language. Are they francophones? Personally, I think so.

Depending on the definition, the picture changes. If we want a full picture, we must agree on the most inclusive definition to determine which people are considered francophones in Quebec and elsewhere. That's what Mr. Dupuis is doing: when he says 2.7 million people, he uses a broader and more inclusive definition of francophones.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

On that point, that is precisely what Ontario has chosen to do.

Ms. Forest, thank you very much for your testimony. I know that this is your first appearance before the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Could you talk about the role of the provinces and territories in OLMC protection strategies?

Perhaps Mr. Dupuis would like to talk about it as well.

As for the demographic weight of francophones, can the investments made in recent years help?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Ms. Forest, I will give you five to 10 seconds to answer.

[Mariève Forest]

Thank you for your question, but it is a little beyond my expertise.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

Thank you, Ms. Forest.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

My question is for the FCFA.

Do you think it is still possible that a bill to modernize the Official Languages Act will be introduced before the summer?

[Alain Dupuis]

I think it is possible. It is our hope that a bill will be introduced before the end of the parliamentary session.