Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2021

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Serré will speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

You have the floor for five minutes, Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The minister mentioned earlier that $253 million was given to the province of Ontario.

As part of the $121.3 million in funding for the official languages in education program, or OLEP, $1.9 million was set aside for Laurentian University.

Can you explain what this $253 million package to the province of Ontario is all about?

[Denis Racine]

In the 2021-2022 fiscal year, the Province of Ontario will invest more than $379 million in all minority-language education.

Meanwhile, the federal government will contribute $83.2 million. The province's funding exceeds the federal contribution, of course, as it covers school board operations and classroom instruction, among other things. The federal support complements and enriches the program offerings.

These funds are divided between primary and secondary education. In addition, a portion of these funds is allocated to post-secondary education.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

You were talking earlier about the discussions you are currently having with the Province of Ontario. You indicated that you had not received any proposal before February 2, date on which Laurentian University filed for protection under the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act. What is your relationship today? Is there a dialogue, an exchange of ideas?

I represent 45% of the population of Sudbury, which is quite interested in this issue. And we've talked to the minister, and the government has set aside quite a bit of money for this in the budget. What are the dialogues with the province? Has the province submitted any documentation, proposal or plan?

As Mr. Boulerice mentioned, the midwifery program is extremely important. It was unique, not only in Ontario, but in all of French Canada. Laurentian University offered the only French-language midwifery program outside of Quebec. Midwives practising in New Brunswick and Nunavut were trained at Laurentian University.

What steps have you taken and what have you received from the province?

[Denis Racine]

Discussions are underway with the province on the issue of Laurentian University and education in general.

I can't really comment on the province's response with respect to Laurentian University. The province tells us that a process has to be completed. With respect to Laurentian University, the province will have to determine what the solutions will be to the post-secondary education situation in Middle Northern Ontario.

We have made it clear to the province, at the public service level, that we expect to receive two proposals. We expect the province to come back with a solution, but also with a proposal that might resonate with us. We could look at that proposal quickly and see how we could work together to ensure a quality post-secondary education offering in Middle Northern Ontario.

I can't tell you what the solution will be, because that's up to the Ontario government.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Has the province responded that it will not propose a solution until the legal process is complete?

[Denis Racine]

According to what our provincial counterparts tell us, there are steps that need to be taken before they can even come to a conclusion about the solution.

They are in the best position to explain the situation to you.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Do you have any means, such as through the Auditor General, to ensure that federal funds have been well spent by the province?

[Denis Racine]

We receive financial reports from the provinces as part of the bilateral agreements.

Under the old protocol, the requirements were less stringent than they are under the new protocol. Under the new protocol, we get much more detailed financial reports, and we can see where the investments are going. So far, there have been no situations of concern and funds have not been paid out where they should not have been.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Racine and Mr. Serré.

You know that the House Administration says that committees must finish on time. That is good timing, because we have two last interventions of two and a half minutes each. Mr. Beaulieu will speak first and then, Mr. Boulerice.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I want to supplement Mr. Blaney's questions.

Would it have been possible for the government to set aside $5 million for post-secondary education in French without requiring a $5-million match from the province? I don't know if this has ever been done.

[Denis Racine]

In the area of education, the official languages support programs rely on collaboration with the provinces based on 50-50 cost sharing. This is the mechanism by which we can provide funding to the provinces for post-secondary education and education in general.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Earlier, I asked the minister a question about research grants. If education is a provincial jurisdiction, does that mean that all these grants are subject to federal-provincial agreements?

[Denis Racine]

The criteria or terms of the programs vary from one department to another. It must be said that our department is not the only one that gives money to university or post-secondary institutions across the country. Other federal departments do this as well. However, our programs are different and the conditions are different. So it's possible that, in a given case, one department has the authority to fund universities directly, for example in the area of infrastructure. In this case, it's up to other departments.

In the case of official languages support programs, we must provide funding on a 50-50 basis.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay.

Earlier, in response to my question, the minister said that the federal government had given grants to Bishop's University, among others. Was this done under a federal-provincial agreement?

[Denis Racine]

We have an agreement. We are working with Quebec in the same way that we work with the other provinces in the area of minority-language or second-language education. In fact, funding has been granted through a bilateral agreement with Quebec for projects in the area of post-secondary education.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

This means that, in general, all funding for English-language elementary and secondary schools under the official languages support programs is provided under federal-provincial agreements.

[Denis Racine]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Racine and Mr. Beaulieu.

We will end the last round of questions with Mr. Boulerice.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Racine and Ms. Boyer, thank you very much for being with us today.

I am trying to untangle the issue and to understand. On the one hand, there is a lot of talk about matching funds. In other words, the federal government can only provide financial assistance if the provincial government matches the funds. The federal government then provides additional assistance. On the other hand, the federal government can sometimes act on its own. This has happened in the case of the Université de l'Ontario français, for example, as well as in the case of Laurentian University, for which $5 million was apparently set aside.

I'm trying to figure out what's going on. Is it mandatory for the province to put money in, or can the federal government sometimes make a contribution even though there is no obligation on the part of the province?

[Denis Racine]

There was no unilateral federal intervention in the case of either the Université de l'Ontario français or Laurentian University.

In the case of the Université de l'Ontario français, it is a 50-50 split with the Province of Ontario. The only difference, in the case of the Université de l'Ontario français, is that the Government of Canada agreed to contribute almost 100% in the first four years of the agreement, and Ontario was then to take over and fund 100% of the costs for the last four years of the agreement. That was the agreement. In the end, it's a 50-50 split.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In fact, it's as if the federal government had made an advance payment.

[Denis Racine]

It was agreed that the federal government would contribute for the first four years to kick-start the project. However, the Province of Ontario has committed to contributing 100% of the cost in the later years of the agreement. This is provided for in the terms of the agreement.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

That is fine. I see that Mrs. Lalonde is very happy with your answers on this issue.

What is your game plan at the moment for Campus Saint-Jean in Edmonton?