Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 36 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f), the committee is meeting on the study of the federal support for French-language or bilingual post-secondary institutions in a minority situation.

I have a few things to tell you.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

I assume everyone is wearing a headset with a boom microphone.

Today, we are beginning our study of federal support for French-language or bilingual post-secondary institutions in a minority situation. We will be spending four meetings on the study.

Welcome to the witnesses. We have with us the Honourable Mélanie Joly, Minister of Official Languages, a committee regular. Welcome, Minister. Joining her are officials from the Department of Canadian Heritage, Denis Racine, director general, official languages branch, and Julie Boyer, assistant deputy minister, official languages, heritage and regions.

You have seven and a half minutes for your opening statement, Minister. After that, we will move into questions from members. I have started the clock. The floor is yours, Minister.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Minister of Official Languages]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon. I hope everyone is doing well. I'm happy to see you all.

I am pleased to be here with two of the wonderful officials I am fortunate enough to work with. As Mr. Dubourg mentioned, I have the support of Assistant Deputy Minister Julie Boyer.

Ms. Boyer, I believe this is your first time appearing before the committee. Thank you for being here.

Also with me is Denis Racine, who has a lot of committee experience; he has appeared with me a number of times.

It is a pleasure to have the chance to join you, and of course I'm here to answer your questions.

Having appeared before the committee on numerous occasions, I want to underscore just how important its role is. In the current landscape, it is vital to really understand how to protect, preserve and promote the vitality of official language communities all over Canada, as well as how to continue strengthening Canada's two official languages.

The committee's studies guide and inform government decision-making on crucial issues. That is why I am delighted to appear before the committee as part of its study on the Government of Canada's administration of federal funding and the positive measures taken by federal institutions to support post-secondary education for official language minority communities.

Although post-secondary education is an area of provincial and territorial jurisdiction, as everyone knows, the Government of Canada has been supporting the education efforts of the provinces and territories for more than half a century. We put bilateral agreements in place to promote minority-language education and second-language instruction. Federal funding is administered in accordance with a strict framework.

Our government takes very seriously its responsibility to support official language minority communities.

It is always a priority for us to be there, side by side, with our official language minorities.

We have always stood up to protect francophones in minority communities, and we recognize that post-secondary institutions are a cornerstone of the vitality of linguistic communities.

We are committed to supporting the development of those communities, promoting bilingualism, modernizing the Official Languages Act and providing a modern vision of Canada's linguistic duality. In the 2020 throne speech, our government made clear its intention to strengthen the Official Languages Act, taking into consideration the unique reality of French in North America.

In the 2021 budget, our government earmarked nearly $500 million in investments to promote French and improve bilingualism, with $121.3 million over three years, starting in 2021-22, to make high-quality post-secondary minority-language education available across Canada.

Lastly, our government's public reform document, which I was pleased to share with the committee in April, clearly lays out our vision. We believe that all Canadians should recognize themselves in the Official Languages Act and that both official languages should be on equal footing, in other words, substantive equality should exist between English and French.

The government is responsible for ensuring that everyone has the opportunity to learn, speak and, live in, French in Canada, as is the case in English, of course. Education plays a crucial role, from preschool to post-secondary learning.

I'd like to share some facts with you. Every year, our government invests $235 million to support bilateral agreements between Canada and the provinces and territories further to the Protocol for Agreements for Minority-Language Education and Second-Language Instruction. That is a very long name for a protocol, so it is often referred to as the official languages in education program, or OLEP. Approximately $149 million is allocated to minority-language education, and $86 million is allocated to second-language instruction.

The overall framework I'm describing encompasses positive measures to support post-secondary education in minority communities. Every agreement includes a provincial or territorial action plan, as well as supported projects for each educational level.

The provinces and territories determine which projects receive support and how much funding goes to each level, from preschool to post-secondary. However, since 2019-20, the agreements have contained stronger accountability measures and a requirement to consult stakeholders. Under the agreements, periodic reporting is also required for the activities undertaken and their impact on communities.

Federal funding of post-secondary education under the agreements sits at roughly $40 million a year, about 17% of total education funding. I should add that programs provide financial support to community-based not-for-profit organizations in the education sector, such as to implement projects and cover operating costs.

Provinces and territories can receive additional funding for emerging needs, teacher recruitment and retention initiatives, and infrastructure projects. All of these positive measures matter because educational institutions are essential to the vitality, development and future of French-speaking communities throughout the country.

We understand that post-secondary institutions are essential to the vitality of official language minority communities. I am concerned about the situation at Laurentian University, as we all are. The same is true of Campus Saint-Jean at the University of Alberta. We are looking for solutions. We are working with the Province of Ontario to ensure northern Ontario has a post-secondary institution run by and for francophones. Today, in fact, I sent a letter to my Ontario counterparts to ensure $5 million is set aside to address the post-secondary education needs of northern Ontario's French-speaking community. We have always stood up to protect francophones in minority communities and we always will.

I look forward to answering your questions and engaging in a productive conversation. Ms. Boyer and Mr. Racine can also answer your questions, of course.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Minister, for your opening statement.

First up is the vice-chair of the committee.

Mr. Blaney, you may go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the committee, Minister. It's always a pleasure to have you, especially when you come bearing financial solutions to a problem we are trying to address. As you know, we are studying federal support for post-secondary institutions, but the situation at Laurentian University was really the impetus.

You announced $5 million in funding. Can you tell us more about the criteria?

The French-speaking community is calling for a moratorium to ensure Laurentian University's programs continue to be offered until resources have been fully transitioned to francophone institutions.

Does the $5 million come with conditions, or can the money be used now to address the problem northern Ontario is facing?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Blaney. It's very germane. Not only did I have some related discussions today, but I have also had ongoing conversations with members of the community for months. I have been in contact with a number of stakeholders. I have spoken to faculty union representatives, students and members of the francophone community, as well as people such as Ronald Caza, who is directly involved in the University of Sudbury case, and Dyane Adam, who oversees the Université de l'Ontario français.

At this stage, two considerations are key. First, an interim solution has to be found to address the programming that has been cut and sent outside northern Ontario, including the midwifery program that was available in French. Second, a long-term solution has to be found, one that is developed by, for and with francophones.

The solution has to come from the community, and that means people really have to communicate. Once the community brings forward its solution, people know the money will be on the table. The solution may involve the University of Sudbury or a partnership between the University of Sudbury and the network established through the Université de l'Ontario français. Meanwhile, if they need money to move the plan along, we can help them.

That is what we are suggesting, but we have to work with the Government of Ontario, because the creation of a university is governed by Ontario legislation. My counterparts Ross Romano and Caroline Mulroney have to sign off on the project, not only jurisdictionally, but also financially.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I see.

Are you saying you will provide the $5 million only if the Government of Ontario shells out the same amount?

Conversely, is this important project a constitutional priority for you? Will you show leadership and support the project as soon as the community has a concrete plan?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We have to work with the province.

For the Université de l'Ontario français, we had to make sure we had a fifty-fifty cost-sharing agreement. At the time, our position was that we would put money on the table, convince the province to participate and work with the community. After extensive talks and negotiations, we were able to create the university.

The wait is dragging on, with a process under way pursuant to the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act and people waiting to see what will happen with Laurentian University. In the meantime, professors have lost their jobs and students have lost access to French-language programs in the Sudbury area.

We felt it was necessary to stop wasting time, so we put money on the table to help get things moving.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

You are saying you are going to give $5 million.

Will you require Ontario to put up the same amount, or are you prepared to commit immediately to helping francophone communities?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We are already committed, as I said. We have earmarked $5 million, but we are waiting for Ontario to do the same.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

All right. The funding is conditional, then. That wasn't clear from the letter.

In any case, we want the community to have access to the money. Obviously, another jurisdiction is involved, and we sincerely hope the province provides funding for the project. However, we do not think the federal government should put off providing urgently needed support to minority communities until the province forks out the money.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Blaney, I urge you to speak with your counterparts in Ontario, because I have no doubt they would be encouraged to hear from their fellow Conservatives in the House of Commons and listen closely to what you had to say.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Surely, they listen closely to you as well, seeing as you are the minister. My job, however, is really to make sure the federal government does its job and shows leadership, and since you are the heritage minister responsible—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

—not the heritage minister, but the minister of official languages.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Yes, you are responsible for official languages.

That is why it's important to us that the federal government assume its role as a leader. I was disappointed to hear you say that the $5 million was conditional. It seems some squabbling is going on, when all we care about is the money going to the communities.

I wish you would have said that the $5 million did not come with conditions and was ready to be handed over to the communities because they needed it. The situations you talked about are dire. One of your colleagues has to deal with the reality day in and day out. That is why I wish you would have said that you were giving the $5 million, that you were counting on the provincial government to lend its support, and that you were showing leadership by not attaching any strings to the funding, which by the way seems to have been voted. The government recently announced funding in the amount of $121 million.

Is it true that funding for the official languages in education program has not increased since 2009?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No, that isn't true.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

What do you mean?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Well—

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I have the report here. It says, and I quote:

…federal funding for the Official Languages in Education Program has not increased since 2009.

That is in the report released today by the Commissioner of Official Languages, which is quite critical of the federal government's response and treatment of communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 15 seconds to answer, Minister.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

That is not true. In 2019, we injected an additional $60 million in OLEP, which Mr. Racine and Ms. Boyer can confirm.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

That is not mentioned in the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Lefebvre for six minutes.

Mr. Lefebvre, you may go ahead.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here once again. You always make yourself available, not just for committee meetings, but also any time an opportunity arises to have a discussion. I appreciate that.

As you know, I'm less than 1.5 kilometres away from Laurentian University. The situation facing the university is one of the reasons we are gathered today. I want to take a moment to talk about how, we, in the federal government came to find out about the situation at Laurentian University, what we were able to do and what we can do to help.

When did you find out that Laurentian University was in financial trouble?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Personally, I found out at the same time as everyone else, when the news broke.

It is true, however, that you contacted my office in December, Mr. Lefebvre. It seems Laurentian University was losing money because of the COVID-19 pandemic and had submitted a request for assistance.

That was in January, so my office decided to reach out to the Ontario government directly to raise the issue facing Laurentian University and see whether it was possible to change the funding allocations under the agreement. We were prepared to do that.

I should point out that many of the country's universities were concerned about the decline in international student enrolment and the challenges posed by virtual learning.

Laurentian University's request seemed reasonable given that it was in more or less the same boat as other universities in the country. That was in late January. The department contacted the Ontario Ministry of Colleges and Universities but did not receive a response. Then, on February 1, we found out that Laurentian University had commenced proceedings under the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

The announcement was a huge surprise to all of us.

As I said, we are clearly looking for solutions.

At the same time, people don't know much about how bilateral agreements in education work between Ontario's government and the Canadian government. Those agreements enable the federal government to transfer funds to Laurentian University.