Official Languages Committee on June 3rd, 2021

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Initially for Mr. Riopel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Riopel.

[Pierre Riopel]

Thank you very much.

Historically, Franco-Ontarians were in favour from the beginning. What we are requesting is the immediate repatriation of everything being done in French at Laurentian University.

There are three months remaining before the September term begins. Time is short. We know that we are being very ambitious, but such things have previously been dealt with at the high school and college levels. There are solutions.

There is certainly, through the province, support for the project. We were very pleased with Minister Joly's announcement about the $5 million, because we were in the middle of talking about management and governance by, for, and with francophones.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

So you intend to launch your new program in September 2021 and take everything that is francophone—please excuse the expression—away from Laurentian University.

Is that right?

[Pierre Riopel]

Ideally, yes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

All right. Thank you.

Mr. Constantineau, what do you think about this?

[Denis Constantineau]

Some of these points are important. You spoke briefly about the dream of Laurentian, which is still speaking on behalf of the community. Let's be clear. Laurentian University no longer looks like us and no longer brings us together. The community has lost confidence in this bilingual institution, which can no longer speak on behalf of the francophone community in Sudbury and the Mid-North. It's obvious.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Do you have the support of the MPs who represent these regions?

It's important because they have influence. I know that Mr. Lefebvre is here. Can you tell us who your MPs are?

Who represents the riding in which Laurentian University is located?

Are these MPs backing you? Have you presented your project to them? Are they looking for solutions for francophone university education in northern Ontario?

[Denis Constantineau]

We at the Coalition have had numerous discussions with Mr. Lefebvre and Mr. Serré about this. Communication is very good and the support is there. We are of course making a distinction between federal and provincial areas of jurisdiction, but they have answered the call and are supporting us in this.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Excellent. I'm keen to hear what they have to say, because it's important. We, of course, are prepared to make recommendations accordingly.

Mr. Riopel, I am running out of time, but could you take a few seconds to add your comments?

[Pierre Riopel]

I completely agree with my colleague Mr. Constantineau. We speak regularly with Mr. Lefebvre and Mr. Serré. We have also been discussing things with our provincial MLAs, Jamie West and France Gélinas, who is the MLA for my region of Nickel Belt. She is therefore Mr. Serré's counterpart.

I can also say that we have been having fairly regular conversations with Senator Moncion and Senator Forest-Niesing, who was my predecessor at the University of Sudbury.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Excellent.

I wouldn't say that everything is hunky-dory, but it's reassuring to see that my colleagues are on board and that we're all headed in the same direction.

We have nothing against Laurentian University, and all we want to do is make sure there is continuity and that solid foundations are established by and for francophones. You can count on the members of this committee to move in that direction.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much for your collaboration, Mr. Blaney.

Mr. Lefebvre, you have the floor for the next five minutes.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mr. Constantineau and Mr. Riopel. Thank you for attending.

It's important for us to know what's going on in our community.

In his opening address, Mr. Constantineau mentioned that Laurentian University was the cradle of Franco-Ontarian identity. That's why it's heart-rending for us to see what happened. I had mentioned it at the very outset to Mr. Haché. By eliminating these programs, they took away the University's soul. It no longer looks like us and no longer draws us together, which is worrisome.

It's important to determine what we have to do to ensure that students and the francophone community have a place that looks like them and where they can get together.

Your coalition project with the University of Sudbury is very interesting, as I told you. It needs to be studied very closely.

Mr. Riopel, on the matter of transferring programs from Laurentian University to the University of Sudbury, you mentioned that it all began with discussions you held with representatives of the provincial government and that this was the key.

Could you give us a brief update on these discussions?

[Pierre Riopel]

We approached the Ministry of Francophone Affairs and the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities a while ago now.

I can confirm that we sent an official letter to minister Ross Romano today, clearly stating our intent to repatriate the programs. Nearly everyone in the provincial government was informed of this.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I know that discussions are being held about what might be done locally. Can you tell us about plans for the University of Sudbury?

I also know that there have been discussions about the creation of a network that would bring together Université de Hearst, the University of Toronto and the Université de l'Ontario français. Can you update us on these discussions?

[Pierre Riopel]

I'd be glad to.

We held discussions with our friends at Hearst. To locate it geographically, I can tell you that Hearst is a six-hour drive north of Sudbury. So it's a hike. We also held discussions with our friends at the Université de l'Ontario français, who are in Toronto, so about a five-hour drive south. All three are open-minded, of course.

In postsecondary education at the moment, it's in the nature of the beast to have networks and articulation agreements, and for our students to be able to take courses at other institutions, and to use technology, as we are doing right now.

I am happy to tell people that a network would be great and I don't see a problem there, but that what I want first is a university. We can create a network afterwards. Our intent on this subject is clear.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

It's the heart of the matter. We need to determine what we can do locally. That's the debate going on at the moment.

Mr. Constantineau, can you tell us how the community sees this transfer of programs from Laurentian, as requested by the University of Sudbury and supported by the coalition? What do you see for the future?

We want this whole idea to be a success. I have no doubt that it will take shape and that it will be successful, but it's important to have the support of the community.

I'd like to hear your comments on that.

[Denis Constantineau]

It's pretty clear that this plan has community support throughout the province. No one will say that it's not a good idea and that they don't want a French-language university for Ontario's Mid-North. So the support is there, and that's important.

I'd like to return to what Mr. Haché was saying earlier, to the effect that only 10% of students were affected by the axing of Laurentian University's programs, because that's not the case.

Students whose programs were not affected are leaving because there are no longer enough options for the other courses they need. Some professors are also leaving from programs that were unaffected. One sent me an email yesterday evening, telling me that he had accepted another job elsewhere. And yet his program had not been affected. So there are repercussions that go well beyond the elimination of programs at Laurentian University.

There is unequivocal community support for the creation of a French-language university.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I also heard similar comments from people who had to leave the university, not because their program had been cut but because too many of their courses were offered only in English, which was very worrisome.

Thank you very much for having agreed to join us today. The conversations will continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Lefebvre.

I will now give the floor to the second vice-chair of the committee.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank our two guests, whose presentations were very interesting.

According to an article published on the Radio-Canada website, a number of representatives of bilingual universities, including the University of Ottawa and Laurentian University, met secretly with a view to having the Université de l'Ontario français project cancelled on grounds that bilingual universities could provide an alternative solution.

What do the two witnesses think about that? There appears to be rather fierce competition from the bilingual universities, and there are not many universities by and for francophones. I'd like to hear what you have to say on this.

Mr. Constantineau could answer first, followed by Mr. Riopel.

[Denis Constantineau]

Thank you.

I believe that takes us back to the starting point. In 2021, the era of bilingual institutions came to an end because they were no longer meeting needs. We found that was the case at the school and college levels. Now, we see that it's time to deal with the educational gaps at the university level, because there is nothing at the moment in the Mid-North.

It's over for the idea of a bilingual university. People want a French-language university administered by, for and with the community. That's what they need.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

I'm not sure whether Mr. Riopel would like to add something.

What's clear is that the "by and for francophones" idea is very important for elementary and secondary schools.

Shouldn't this project be backed heavily by Franco Ontarians? Many worked on behalf of the Université de l'Ontario français, but the pandemic got in the way.

Shouldn't the next major effort focus on the creation of universities by and for Francophones?

[Denis Constantineau]

As Mr. Riopel Just pointed out, an application was sent to the provincial government and the reaction will depend on the government's response to this application.