Official Languages Committee on June 3rd, 2021

[Frédéric Lacroix]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Federal funding to Quebec represents a substantial fraction of university budgets. We're talking about some $900 million a year, which is a lot of money. The federal government invests in English-language universities to a disproportionate degree.

The federal government also provides funding through the Canada-Québec Agreement for Minority-Language Education and Second-Language Instruction to anglicize programs offered at French-language educational institutions. That money is therefore used, for example, to establish English-language programs at francophone CEGEPs and universities. So it seems to me the original mission of that funding has been changed in order to anglicize French-language universities and educational institutions.

The federal government has also invested heavily in Quebec's health system in order to anglicize services provided. Between 2008 and 2013, $32 million was granted to McGill University to establish a program to train health workers to provide health services in English in defiance of the Charter of the French Language, which theoretically guarantees the right to work in French in Quebec.

I also took a look at bilingual and francophone universities outside Quebec through the prism of institutional completeness. I found that, in Ontario, for example, approximately 3% of the revenues of French-language and bilingual universities came from French-language programs, whereas, based on mother tongue, francophones constitute 4.7% of the population of Ontario. French-language educational institutions are thus chronically underfunded in that province.

That's also the case in Alberta, where French-language educational institutions are 80% underfunded.

As we establish profiles for all the provinces, we realize that all French-language educational institutions in Canada are underfunded, including those in Quebec.

In so saying, I don't mean the federal government is responsible for this situation, but rather that, through its investments in research and certain agreements such as the Québec Agreement for Minority-Language Education and Second-Language Instruction, it invests a great deal of money that doesn't support French-language educational institutions.

I think that funding invested to support the vitality of English could simply be withdrawn and invested in French-language educational institutions outside Quebec. The $50 million paid annually to support the vitality of English in Quebec could be invested in educational institutions outside Quebec because English has no need of it in Quebec. If you're looking for money, that's where you'll find it. Here's at least $50 million that you could get your hands on in short order.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's excellent.

Could you tell us a little more about the double-majority concept?

The UN Human Rights Committee doesn't recognize Quebec anglophones as a minority because they're part of the English Canadian majority. However, in Quebec, the Official Languages Act is based on the minority concept. Doesn't that also constitute a democratic deficit in that area?

The English Canadian majority has imposed the Official Languages Act on Quebec and the Constitution Act, 1982 as well in support of that act. Quebec thus remains a minority in Canada. Would you like to tell us more about that?

[Frédéric Lacroix]

Yes, as I wrote in my book, we should have introduced an asymmetrical official languages act. Asymmetry means acknowledging that there is only one real majority in Canada: the anglophone majority. Francophones form a false majority, even in Quebec. The sociological reality is this: francophones are unable to completely assimilate immigrants who settle in Quebec. Anglophones assimilate half of all immigrants. I know of no genuine minority in the world that can do that.

The underlying symmetry in the Official Languages Act is the origin of a major design flaw that prevents us from realizing what's happening on the ground, which is that French is on the decline everywhere in Canada, including Quebec. French is very quickly declining in Quebec as well.

The federal government's role in that decline is very prominent. In my view, the federal government must therefore abandon the double-majority concept and revise the Official Languages Act.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I would appreciate a brief answer.

You are proposing an exhaustive study on institutional completeness for every linguistic group in every province in Canada.

I'd like to know what Ms. Chouinard thinks of the proposal, but I believe my time is up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes, Mr. Beaulieu, your time is up.

I used to have the option of being flexible, but, as you know, we've received instructions from the House to adjourn meetings at the scheduled time. You can come back to your question in another round.

Mr. Angus, go ahead for six minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to Mr. Haché for his participation.

It's very important for francophone and indigenous communities, as well as people from northern Ontario, to understand the causes of the financial crisis at Laurentian University.

Mr. Haché, the last time we spoke, we talked about the decision that led up to the university's plunging into bankruptcy protection, which my colleague, Mr. Lefebvre, has said cut out the heart and soul of Laurentian. You said there were a number of meetings between the provincial and federal governments in the lead-up to that.

In your meetings with the federal government, did you ask for financial help or support to avoid having to go into bankruptcy?

[Robert Haché]

Indeed, we did have a number of meetings over the last year and the time leading up to this, with both the provincial and federal sides. In all cases, we were quite transparent about the magnitude and origin of our financial difficulties.

We made requests, seeking any possibilities of receiving assistance from the federal government. As was already described a bit, there were a number of suggestions that were made in terms of programs that would be available to us, which we continue to try to take advantage of.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you for that, because what surprised me is that Mr. Lefebvre said publicly that when you met with him there was “no ask, no number”. You're saying that you actually asked and put a plan on the table. He said that the extent of the crisis was not made clear to Laurentian until the end of December, but you were meeting with them before that.

Did you lay out an ask, and if not, why not?

[Robert Haché]

At the end of December, we were very transparent about the magnitude of the challenges we had. Without making a specific ask, we were highlighting the magnitude of the challenge, the gap that Laurentian had, and looking for any ways the federal government might be able to help us to bridge that gap.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

What about the December 6 meeting with Mr. Lefebvre? I think Mr. Serré was there. Didn't you tell them that you were in crisis?

[Robert Haché]

As I said, we were fairly transparent all through the lead-up to the process, both provincially and federally, in explaining in meetings that we had, the magnitude of the challenges we had at the university. Absolutely.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

You were transparent with the magnitude. I appreciate that. This is an absolute crisis that happened.

What surprised me was that Madam Joly, the Minister responsible for FedNor, who represents economic development as well as official languages and the Franco-Ontarian community, said that if she had been told, she would have intervened and worked with the province.

Do you think it might have been better to have gone directly to Madam Joly than to the two local MPs, because she said she would have acted?

[Robert Haché]

In hindsight, perhaps.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order on a technical matter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

All right.

Go ahead, Mr. Arseneault

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I'm having trouble hearing what's being said.

I think Mr. Angus is speaking a little too quickly. I don't know whether it's my screen that's freezing up, but I'm having trouble hearing what's being said in sequence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

All right. Thank you.

I'll ask the clerk to check that.

Mr. Angus, would you please say a few words so we can check the sound?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I am certainly willing to repeat a sentence or two. I hope none of this comes off my time.

Is that correct?

I can speak as slowly as you like.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That's correct. They are technical problems. Don't worry about that.

Is it working, Madam Clerk?

[The Clerk]

Everything's fine with the sound on our end.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Arseneault, can you hear more clearly now?

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

No. It's the same. Perhaps I'm the only one affected. The sound was very low and cut off even when the clerk responded. It wasn't constant.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I see.

Are any other members of the committee having the same problem?

Are you having the same problem, Mr. Beaulieu?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I didn't think it was that bad.

However, I've been told a few times that I have a bad connection.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

All right. We'll monitor that.

Mr. Angus, I must warn you that you have slightly less than three minutes left. Go ahead.