Official Languages Committee on May 9th, 2022

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Ms. Ashton, I agree with you about how critical it is that workers are able to work in their language of choice. These obligations for CN have existed for decades. CN is expected to ensure that all of its employees and all of its customers are able to work in the language of their choice. It would be unacceptable for CN not to fulfill that obligation, even before Bill C-13 passes.

We all need to work together on identifying areas of improvement so we can ensure that the Official Languages Act, as it is today, is not only upheld, but can be improved upon. You're right. First, we have to respect Canadians' rights and ensure that they work in a safe place, but also that they are able to conduct their job properly, adequately and safely. We have to remain vigilant and work together to ensure that we uphold those responsibilities.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

We know that the statutes that protect passengers in Canada are very weak compared to those in Europe, for example. Francophone passengers are at a twofold disadvantage. That's clear from the many complaints that have been filed against Air Canada, for example. The Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages received 2,680 complaints after the company's CEO, Michael Rousseau gave that speech in English. That's the largest number of complaints ever filed in a single case in the history of that office. The frustration of Canadian passengers is obvious, but the government isn't taking the situation seriously.

When will you defend francophone passengers and force Air Canada to meet its official languages obligations?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Ms. Ashton, we heard these complaints loud and clear. That's why a significant element of Bill C-13 is creating more powers for the Commissioner of Official Languages to impose serious fines on corporations or organizations that fail to uphold their responsibility, including Air Canada.

I can assure you that not only do I, Transport Canada and other government officials keep reminding Air Canada of their responsibility, but we're now providing new tools and there will be severe consequences for any failure to uphold these obligations.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left, Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Air Canada and CN clearly have major problems. We can see a lack of respect for francophones and perhaps even safety issues.

We're talking about Bill C‑13 but are you prepared to assume your ministerial duties and apply the Official Languages Act to Air Canada and CN since that's within your area of responsibility?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We won't have time to hear the answer, Ms. Ashton. The minister may have a chance to answer in the second round of questions, which we will begin momentarily.

Mr. Lehoux, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister. Thank you for making the effort to speak French.

Has your colleague the Minister of Official Languages met with you to ask you to take action in the CN file?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Yes. She and I have met on multiple occasions and we have spoken on multiple occasions. Whether it was regarding Bill C-13 or whether it was the CN board of directors appointment issue, we have spoken.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you for your answer, Minister, but I'd appreciate more specific details on steps you've taken in the CN file.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Immediately after the appointments were announced and it became clear that there was a shortcoming there, we spoke with CN and let them know it was unacceptable. I can't speak on behalf of Minister Petitpas Taylor, but I can tell you that the message was sent loud and clear to CN.

They've acknowledged this shortfall and they've committed to addressing it in the next appointment. I know that CN is coming before this committee. I'm sure you will be asking them all the questions that you have, and I look forward to that exchange.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

That's ultimately just a slap on the wrist. You're not calling for any specific action.

Have you also taken steps to ensure a greater francophone presence on CN's board? What specific steps do you intend to take or have you already taken?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

This is an important question that I know the committee is looking at. I want to repeat what I said earlier. The Official Languages Act is silent on the makeup of a board of directors. We need to remember that there is no legal obligation right now for CN to have a certain makeup within its board of directors.

Now, the committee is going to look at Bill C-13 and consider what else can be done. However, I still think, whether the law remains silent or not on the board of directors, that CN should set an example. It should set leadership in demonstrating to its employees and its customers that they continue to want to have adequate representation on their board of directors.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

On that point, Minister, CN has definitely decided to recruit outside Quebec to fill its new director positions. That's what we saw in the newsletter that was sent to shareholders for the next meeting, which will be held in a few days.

How did you, as minister, and your department react when the board sent out a memo to everyone announcing they would be looking for francophone candidates outside Quebec? What's your reaction to that situation?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I know that CN is not confused about our position on the importance of having a francophone, somebody who is from Quebec, on the board of directors. The message was sent loud and clear to CN. I know that CN is taking the issue very seriously and, as I said, I look forward to their presentation before you when they come here.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you for that answer, Minister.

Bill C‑13 is under consideration in the House. We're eager for it to be referred to our committee so we can amend it. There will definitely be major amendments to make so, for example, we can give you the authority to intervene with the boards of various organizations such as CN and Air Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 15 seconds left, Mr. Lehoux.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, do you really intend to consider positive recommendations and actually implement them in future?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I look forward—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I apologize for interrupting, Minister.

Mr. Lehoux, the minister may have a chance to answer your question in the next round.

The next questions will come from Mrs. Patricia Lattanzio.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome the minister too.

I would also take the opportunity to commend you, Minister, for your efforts in speaking and understanding French. Do know that you are before the best standing committee here.

Without further ado, it's very clear from your testimony today that the Official Languages Act is silent with regard to the makeup of the board of directors, but could you tell us what criteria CN looks at in selecting its board members? Do you have any idea? Can you enlighten us on this topic?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

CN is a private corporation and they get to decide the types of skills and backgrounds that their board members need to have. I suspect that is a dynamic thing depending on the challenges or opportunities they see. They need to be filled within their board of directors, so they do not run the qualification or the type of individuals they are looking for by me or by Transport Canada.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay, if it's based on skill set, and we know that you are setting the example because you are saying quite clearly here today that you would like CN and Air Canada to be the leaders, to wave that leadership flag with regard to making sure that there is francophone representation on their board of directors.... That being said, would you not agree that if there were a skilled individual, French could also be learned?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I think one's ability to speak official languages, French or English, should be part of the skills that any board of directors or any corporation is looking for. It is really important that CN have adequate representation, not only adequate francophone representation, but representation from Quebec. This is part of the set of skills that need to be present on the board of directors for CN.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

How many director positions exist right now at CN, to your knowledge?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Again, at the risk of speaking on behalf of CN, my knowledge is they have 11 members right now. Their articles of incorporation allow up to 20, but currently they only have 11.