Official Languages Committee on Oct. 20th, 2022

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You're thanking him for having the good fortune to be your teacher. Is that it?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Exactly.

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

You can see the result. My apologies.

[Some hon. members]

Oh oh!

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Now let's get down to business.

You said that Bill C‑13 is a tool but that it isn't the tool that will defend the francophonie. I think the same is true of Bill 96 in the National Assembly. They're important tools, but a set of tools has to be used. I increasingly realize that speaking French is a choice, but that's even truer outside Canada, where we are present, but not in the majority there either. We have the good fortune to speak French with certain members of the committee and with other parliamentarians outside the country, but we realize that's nevertheless a choice that we make.

Since I know you're involved in the defence of the French language, Mr. Perreault, my question will concern young people, who spend far more time on their telephones and in the virtual world, where there are no geographical barriers. How do you think we can ensure that French content is available in a sea of anglophone content?

I'm not pointing my finger at anglophones; I'm merely observing that the digital world is a largely anglophone world. Even in scientific research, we realize that, relatively speaking, French is virtually nonexistent. That's an issue we can discuss both in Quebec and internationally.

What do you think we should do, and could Bill C‑13 help us do it?

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

The reason we're here is precisely to invent, think about and reflect on programs or ways to redevelop structures so that French doesn't solely occupy a defensive position. I think the Canadian francophonie and Quebec deserve much more than that. What we need to establish is a position that enables the French language and everything related to it, such as culture and communications, to expand and advance.

You mentioned that French content has a weak presence on social media and that there's an overconsumption of English content. Since we aren't limiting ourselves to Bill C‑13 today, we could look into other issues and consider what steps the federal government can take to increase the presence of French on social media. We can put that question to the municipalities as well, and to the Quebec government and the anglophone governments of the anglophone provinces. Why not? What can they do to increase the presence of French on the Internet?

It seems to me there must be ways. We can do great things, not solely in English. If society wants, it will develop ways, such as presence programs in universities, CEGEPs and high schools. We can consider programs for funding virtual and electronic creation on social media and the Internet. Once the problem has been observed, it must not be used to further inferiorize or trivialize French, but rather to consider what we can do from now on.

That's our mandate, and very much yours as well. You've just identified a serious problem, Mr. Drouin. It's true that young people consume too much social media in English.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'll ask Mr. Parent the same question. I'm familiar with the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, or RDÉE Canada, and the Société Économique de l'Ontario, the SEO.

Bill C‑13 includes provisions on immigration. Are you satisfied with that, or are you aware of any improvement or change that could be made to the bill on the subject?

[Jean-François Parent]

I think every bill can be improved, regardless of its form.

We think that, in its present form, Bill C‑13 should be amended to provide for a separate path for francophone economic immigration to official language minority communities. That opinion is shared not only by SEC and RDÉE Canada, but also by other organizations of the Canadian francophonie, including the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, the FCFA.

This subject is partly addressed in the text of the bill, but it should be clarified to state exactly what such a path would be.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Parent and Mr. Drouin.

The next question will be asked by Mario Beaulieu, the second vice-chair of this committee.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses as well.

I want to go back to what Mr. Godin said earlier. Between 2000 and 2017, the federal government paid more than 35% of funding allocated to anglophone universities. For 2017, that figure rose to 38.4%, which represented $363 million, quite a significant sum.

I realize you didn't finish your presentation, Mr. Perreault. Do you have any other important points to raise?

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

The situation at the airports was raised earlier.

What is Canada's international image?

It's actually the image of an anglophone country. Let's admit it. Just try to find French in Canadian embassies and consulates. You may find some, but not very much. The image of Canada as a francophone country doesn't exist.

Here's a visually strong example. Consider the impact on immigration. If Canada's embassies and consulates around the world project the image of an anglophone country on their home web pages, I don't think that will encourage a lot of francophone immigration. The image that immigrants have before coming here is that of an anglophone country.

Here's a personal example, Mr. Beaulieu.

Coming back from the south, where I had spent my winter vacation, I arrived at Ottawa airport, in the nation's capital, like any immigrant, refugee or tourist from abroad. The signs on all the welcome booths read, "English agents — Agents anglais", but those on two other booths read, "Bilingual agents — Agents bilingues".

It didn't take long for me to understand that there are two languages in Canada: French and bilingual. It's not surprising that 90% of English Canadians are unilingual or that, given the vision that French is bilingual, the language is eroding in Quebec.

That suits the "anglosphere" because, by anglicizing citizens, it can fill its universities, CEGEPs, radio stations, media and whatever you want to name.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'm going to continue in the same vein.

You talk about bilingualism. Ultimately, the Canadian model is institutional bilingualism. That's what the Official Languages Act imposes on Quebec, whereas, under its own model, French is the common language across Quebec.

If all federal government intervention is always designed to increase services in English in order to ensure bilingualism, how does that guarantee the future of French?

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

In Canada and North America, this equality of status is good for French. However, when all programs are put on the same footing, the minority official language will always be at a great disadvantage. Equality on the ground is measured by the availability of resources for creation, production and dissemination. When the federal government decides to give grants to Quebec…

Remember, French is the minority language. French is the one that's declining in Canada; it's the one that's being shoved aside. It's the one that's being systematically erased. That's the right word: it's being quietly erased. It's being erased here in Hull on the NCC signs that the City of Gatineau is required to post in English and French. French has been erased in Quebec in order to be consistent with this vision of bilingualism. We had removed English, of course, but French is being erased in Quebec.

The federal government has taken incredibly violent action through the National Capital Commission, which we are supposed to call the "Commission de la capitale fédérale"! For a Quebecker, the national capital is Quebec City. Ottawa is the capital of the Canadian federation. I think the word "national" is inappropriate in that title.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I agree with you.

According to many researchers, including Charles Castonguay and Quebec's French language minister, at least 90% of language transfer payments should be earmarked for French-language programs in order to secure the future of French and maintain the demographic weight of francophones.

However, the federal government uses the first official language spoken to determine what services to offer in English. In Quebec, that includes 33% of immigrants. We want to get 90% of those transfers, but the federal government is anglicizing that 33% of Quebec's population. In other words, it's working hard to put French in a minority position in Quebec.

Do you agree with that?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

That's an excellent question, but we'll have to come back to it later.

A pleasant breeze has blown in from Manitoba. Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks as well to the witnesses today.

My question is for Mr. Perreault and Mr. Parent.

We've analyzed the numbers from the Department of Immigration, relying on the data on permanent residents admitted in 2019. The main 10 source countries of immigration provide 61% of the immigrants who arrive in Canada. English is the official language, or one of the official languages, in 6 of those 10 countries. French is an official language in none of those countries. Some 45% of newcomers come from these six countries. Add to that a minor consular presence in francophone Africa, for example, and we're beginning to see the picture that explains why the federal government's policy is failing.

Mr. Perreault and Mr. Parent, what do these numbers say about the efforts the federal government has made to attract francophones to Canada?

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

Mr. Parent, do you want to answer that question first?

[Jean-François Parent]

Yes, I can answer it briefly.

Ms. Ashton, you've raised a very good point about our consular presence in countries of interest to the Canadian francophonie. Unfortunately, Canada's presence in Africa isn't proportionate to the country's interest in the Canadian francophonie.

Furthermore, certain initiatives directed by Global Affairs Canada, through its Trade Commissioner Service, for example, are minor and do little to offset the pool of francophones that should normally arrive in Canada but doesn't.

A few days ago, I took part in a Global Affairs Canada consultation, in which it was noted that the average cost associated with francophone programming in our embassies and consulates was only $2,000 per embassy, which is really very little. The whole issue here is the unfair situation of French and the fact that it isn't represented internationally. That has to be rebalanced.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Mr. Perreault, do you have anything to add?

[Jean-Paul Perreault]

I believe that Quebec claims exclusive jurisdiction over immigration. This is the territorial approach, of which I am very much in favour because no self-respecting nation can allow another to tell it what it wants. The concept of nationhood is important.

Immigration is a major factor in the situation and future of a nation. In my view, the entire immigration sector should be Quebec's responsibility. As regards what Canada would do about francophone minorities outside Quebec, I hope that English Canada will open the door to even more francophone immigration based on an equal partnership.

It's not surprising that we take in so many anglophone immigrants since the Canadian government continues to enter into international agreements. If Canada were French, do you think it would forge more international ties with the francophonie as a whole? Of course it would. However, Canada defines itself as English as it presents itself to the world. What French there is is only a facade.

Immigrants want to come to a country where the level of comfort is quite high. It must be understood that it's anglophones who are integrating, which undermines French Canada and Quebec. In fact, 50% of allophone immigrants who opt to use a language other than their own choose English when they immigrate to Quebec. That's not good. We need 90% of immigrants to opt for French.

You mentioned regression. Immigration and education are central issues. Theoretically, education isn't a federal government jurisdiction. In that instance as well…

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I apologize for interrupting, but you're coming to my next question, which concerns education.

My question is for Mr. Parent.

Mr. Perreault, thank you for the points you've raised.

Mr. Parent, the RDÉE, the FCFA and the ACUFC recently published a report on labour needs in the francophone and Acadian communities.

The highlights that you forwarded to us reflect what the committee has heard. There is a labour shortage in many sectors that threatens the vitality of francophone communities.

Do we have enough personnel to teach French to rights holders and those who want to learn it?

Is there any international demand for potential francophone teachers who want to come to Canada and work in our school systems?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Parent, please answer the question in less than 30 seconds.

[Jean-François Parent]

The immediate answer is no. There isn't enough personnel to meet the demand. The report also indicates that this is a general finding. All regions of Canada have labour shortages in the nine sectors, including education, on which we relied to conduct the study.

However, there is strong international demand, which also raises the question of credential recognition, which unfortunately still requires a lot of work. A great deal of work needs to be done to align immigrants' separate path to integration with our labour needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Parent.

You'll be able to expand further on your idea later on.

This completes the first round of questions.

To begin the second round of questions, I give the floor to our newcomer, Mr. Vis.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm very pleased to be here today. As I previously said, the northern Fraser River in British Columbia is well represented today.

At the start of the meeting, someone told me that the French word "vis" means "screw". However, my family comes from the Netherlands, where it actually means "fish". So think of me as a fish rather than a "screw".

Mr. Perreault, I listened to you talking passionately about protecting French. I'd like to tell you a little about my personal situation.

I have a six-year-old son who wants to learn French. He entered a lottery and won a place at a francophone school in the British Columbia education system. When he started the school this year, not a single teacher could speak French. Many parents in British Columbia would like their children to be taught in Canada's second official language, but we're unable to grant that constitutional right to my son and thousands of other children in the province who have neither the luck nor the opportunity to speak both official languages.

How can we change this situation?

Is this a federal transfer payments issue? Should the government establish incentives to attract more teachers and to address the labour shortage problem?