Official Languages Committee on Dec. 6th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 43 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, May 30, 2022, the committee is resuming consideration of C-13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts.

Before we go any further, just a reminder to the members that, if they wish to draft amendments, they should contact Isabelle D'Souza, the new legislative advisor, who is replacing Alexandra Schorah. I will provide members with her contact information a little later.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules for the witnesses and members.

Pursuant to our routine motion, I wish to inform the committee that all witnesses completed the required login tests prior to the meeting.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses, that is…

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Pardon me for interrupting, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Mr. Chair, before we start the meeting, I should inform people that we will have to suspend for a few minutes because there's a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Vis, that's what I was going to do after introducing the witnesses.

Before the bells start ringing, I wanted to request the committee's consent to suspend the meeting five minutes before the vote so we can vote electronically.

Do I have unanimous consent for us to vote using the application and to suspend for five minutes before the vote?

I see no one around the table objects to that.

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don't know what's happening in Acadie, but it seems to me you're going fast.

What you're asking—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We would have been in trouble if the bells had started ringing before we started the meeting.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'm ready to cooperate, but I'd like the minister to be with us for one hour.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Colleagues, you'd find out all kinds of good things if you'd let me finish what I have to say.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, you requested the committee's unanimous consent; I'm simply answering your question.

But I have some questions before I give my consent.

I'm willing to listen to you. Let's hear your speech, and then we'll talk.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Okay.

I should also note that we will have until 1:30 p.m. to make up for lost time. In other words, if we lose 5 or 10 minutes as a result of the vote, we'll be able to make up that time, but we can't go beyond 1:30 p.m.

I hope that answers all your questions.

That being said, do I have the committee's unanimous consent to suspend the meeting five minutes before the vote?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Does that suit everyone?

I think so. That's great.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to give my consent.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Dear friends, I will be with you in person at the meeting on Thursday.

I would like to welcome the first minister that we'll be hearing, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Sean Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Minister of Immigration]

Thanks for the promotion, Mr. Chair.

[Some voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I said "the first minister that we'll be hearing", not the "prime minister".

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I love that interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

The minister is accompanied by Ms. Fox, Deputy Minister, and by Ms. Scott, Assistant Deputy Minister.

Mr. Fraser, you are used to testifying before the committee. As you know, you have five minutes for your opening statement, then we will go to questions from the members.

You have five minutes, Mr. Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the members of the committee for inviting me to appear here today.

Before I begin, I want to mark the anniversary of the tragic incident that took place at the École polytechnique de Montréal. I want to tell everyone who is concerned about violence against women that we will not forget that incident, which unfortunately has now become part of Canada's history.

I would also like to acknowledge that we are gathered on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

First, I would like to thank Minister Petitpas Taylor for introducing Bill C-13, the Commissioner of Official Languages, Raymond Théberge, and his team for their work regarding the vitality of francophone minority communities, and the member for Orleans, Marie-France Lalonde, who is my parliamentary secretary and an ardent advocate of our two official languages.

Although I'm not a francophone, as a proud Canadian, I believe in the importance of promoting French across Canada. I acknowledge the positive impact that the French language continues to have on our country.

Immigration is essential to all our communities. The growth of the labour force in recent years is almost entirely attributable to immigration. Furthermore, today's immigration will help us meet our demographic challenges.

This past August, Statistics Canada reported that the demographic weight of francophone minority communities was declining across the country, which explains why the immigration-related measures contained in Bill C-13 are so important.

Our present francophone immigration strategy was launched in 2019, and it's purpose is to support the vitality of francophone minority communities. To do that, we have set a target of 4.4% of francophone immigrant admissions outside Quebec by the end of next year. We have also adopted additional measures to support the integration and retention of francophone newcomers.

I'm delighted to announce that, from January 1 to August 31 of this year, Canada admitted more francophone newcomers outside Quebec than in any other year since we began compiling statistics. We have actually doubled the number of admissions since the same period last year.

The number of francophone immigrant admissions to Canada outside Quebec has just now exceeded 4%.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or IRCC, has made significant investments in the francophone immigration strategy. To leverage those efforts, I expect to announce a new francophone immigrant admissions target, which will guide our efforts after 2023. I intend to set a new target of more than the current 4.4% in order to offset the demographic decline of francophone and Acadian communities. However, we need to adopt a long-term vision in order to have an impact. To that end, the adoption of a francophone immigration policy will ensure that the government is committed to future francophone immigration.

We have made changes to assist newcomers in adjusting to their new lives once they arrive in Canada. For example, we have implemented the francophone immigration pathway and launched the welcoming francophone communities initiative so that newcomers feel welcome and integrate into their communities.

To attract more francophone and bilingual newcomers to Canada, we are expanding and targeting our francophone immigration promotion activities. This past August, for example, we opened a new office in Yaounde, Cameroon, which will enable us to increase our promotional activities in western and central Africa.

Immigration will play an essential role in Canada's economic future. We have also understood the need to raise immigration thresholds in future and to increase assistance to support the vitality of francophone minority communities.

I am pleased to support the various recommendations that have been made to modernize the Official Languages Act, which will improve our immigration system and enable all our communities to enjoy the benefits of immigration.

In closing, I want to thank my colleagues from all parties for their support of my efforts to learn French, particularly Mr. Godin, whom I regularly see in the corridors of Parliament, as well as my Liberal colleagues. I am very happy to be learning a second language. When I began my political career, I was incapable of carrying on a conversation in French. However, I have made progress with the help of my colleagues, who have encouraged me. I still make a lot of mistakes, and I'm not perfectly bilingual, but I will have learned another language by the time I finish my political career. That's a real positive for me.

Thanks to all my colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

We will begin the first round of questions with the first vice-chair of our committee.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Minister, I'm very happy to listen to you speak French. I'm in a similar situation. I work very hard to learn English, but now I'll switch to French.

Mr. "first minister to come and see us", I know that the burden of respecting both official languages doesn't rest on your shoulders alone. Nevertheless, how many times is your department mentioned in Bill C-13? The Minister and Department of Citizenship and Immigration are mentioned four times.

Immigration is important. Many organizations, including the Fédération des communautés francophone et acadienne, the FCFA, and the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, have clearly shown that francophone immigration, among other things, is failing. Many years ago, you introduced mechanisms to remedy that. My intention isn't to criticize past actions, but we must have a vision for the future, as you said in your presentation.

This bill states that the policy that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration adopts must include objectives, targets and indicators.

Minister, with all due respect, we know perfectly well that indicators alone will lead us to a dead end. We don't need to know that. Targets are important, but we have to do more. We're setting objectives and targets, but there's no obligation to achieve a result. How will this bill, once passed, provide you and us with more tools to do our job?

I may have to cut you off because my time is limited. I must obey the instructions of our chair, whom I very much respect.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

First of all, the number of times the department is mentioned in the bill won't make much of a difference.

The bill requires the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration to establish objectives, targets and indicators. To that end, we've had discussions within my department for the purpose of introducing ambitious strategies. Under the bill, this isn't merely an option: our department would be required to adopt measures to increase the number of francophone newcomers in order to protect the demographic weight of francophones outside Quebec.

We want to protect the francophone culture and identity of communities large and small. To do that, we have to introduce immigration strategies, but that won't be possible without francophone newcomers. My department can't continue to take in larger numbers of newcomers in general. Under Bill C-13, all future ministers will now have to adopt the same approach to welcoming many francophone newcomers.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

All the official language minority communities say we have some catching up to do to meet the targets. You said in your presentation that you had doubled the number of admissions. When you go from one to two, you double the original number, but that doesn't mean you meet objectives.

These are fine words, but how can you reassure the organizations that want to improve francophone immigration results?

The bill would grant you no power. It contains nothing that would provide you with additional tools. It's status quo and all for show. As I said, we're talking about objectives, targets and indicators.

The FCFA suggested that we meet a restorative target of 20%. Then we'll have to stabilize the number of francophone immigrants in order to maintain the demographic weight of francophones outside Quebec at a good level. That will even have to apply to Quebec.