Official Languages Committee on Oct. 28th, 2025

[Martin Normand]

We have data on early childhood educators, but not the specific data you're looking for. The Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne is developing its capacity to collect data on all of our sectors. It can be difficult to compare information from different provincial databases, as they may use different definitions. We are trying to get better at that. We'll take note of your question, though.

That said, anecdotally, based on reports from our member institutions, we know that the vast majority of graduates remain in the communities where they studied or return to their home communities to complete their training when there is an internship available.

[Louis Villeneuve, Liberal, Brome—Missisquoi, QC]

Thank you.

That's all, Mr. Chair. I'll hand things over to my colleague, Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Okay.

Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault, you have two minutes left.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

I would like to begin by thanking the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne for the important work it does to help train educators within the Canadian francophonie.

As you said, we are facing a shortage of qualified educators.

What conditions would enable institutions to boost their capacity to train educators?

What challenges stand in the way of boosting that capacity?

[Catherine Rousseau]

Funding is the main challenge.

As I said, we have the resources we need to develop new programs to meet the needs of the labour market and the early childhood education sector. Over the past few years, we've invested a lot in training, and we're seeing the results on the ground.

More and more training programs are available in French, which wasn't the case a few years ago. In some regions, educators had to train in English. Now they have more and more options for training in French.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Do we have the necessary infrastructure across the country to train more educators?

[Martin Normand]

Infrastructure always has its limits.

At the moment, as my colleague said earlier, our member institutions are capable of offering as many spots as there are internships available. Students cannot graduate unless they do placements. We have to do a better job of matching needs and opportunities.

The infrastructure issue is part of a much larger phenomenon. If we want to increase the number of spaces in our programs, we also need more spaces in early childhood education centres, as well as new early childhood centres that can take in new qualified educators and future interns.

As you can see, the infrastructure issue really isn't about how much infrastructure our institutions have. We know that all institutions have infrastructure issues, but it's not just about creating new infrastructure. It's also about renovating and upgrading existing infrastructure to make these institutions more attractive.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault and Mr. Villeneuve.

Let's go to Mr. Beaulieu for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Perfect.

The ACUFC seems to be saying that intergovernmental co-operation mechanisms are inadequate. Can you expand on that?

I know that your membership doesn't include francophone universities in Quebec, but do you have a good working relationship with the Government of Quebec?

[Martin Normand]

Yes, we have an excellent working relationship with the Government of Quebec. We have a relationship with Quebec's ministry of higher education and ministry of the French language. In the spring, we signed a memorandum of co-operation with the Université du Québec network. We communicate regularly with university presidents and the Fédération des cégeps. I can assure you those relationships are there.

Intergovernmental coordination, however, is a challenge we've been working on for several years.

On some issues, such as early childhood education, we've obtained federal and provincial funding for the same thing. Some institutions have to choose between federal funding and provincial funding to achieve their goals. If intergovernmental coordination were better, one of the two governments would use that money elsewhere, thereby increasing a given institution's capacity in another program or another area of specialization for professions with worker shortages.

There's a lack of intergovernmental coordination, especially in the francophone post-secondary education space.

We have the Ministers' Council on the Canadian Francophonie and the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada, but nobody in either of those organizations is responsible for coordinating funding for francophone post-secondary institutions.

What we want is more efficient use of existing funding.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay.

Earlier, I asked a question about “by and for francophones”, and you provided an overview of the current situation.

Do you think institutions operated by and for francophones have a positive impact on integration within linguistic communities?

[Martin Normand]

I would say that our 22 member institutions strive to integrate into the communities they are a part of and actively participate in. They train responsible citizens, skilled professionals who can then provide services in French.

A Statistics Canada study we commissioned confirmed that graduates of francophone institutions are five times more likely to work in French after completing their studies. This is proof that these graduates contribute directly to community vitality in all kinds of fields.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Bélanger, you have the floor for five minutes. I understand that you may be splitting your time.

[Jim Belanger, Conservative, Sudbury East—Manitoulin—Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses.

Mr. Normand, I'd like to talk to you about a somewhat unique situation. I'm from the greater Sudbury area. We are proud to have a francophone college, Collège Boréal, and a bilingual university, Laurentian University. My daughter is a graduate of that university, where she obtained a master's degree in speech-language pathology.

Laurentian University had financial problems and almost went bankrupt. The francophonie is very important. Northern Ontario's culture must also be safeguarded, and these two institutions are very important to us.

What can we do to ensure that this doesn't happen again in the future?

[Martin Normand]

I would add the Université de Sudbury to that list. It is reducing some of its activities that meet certain specific needs. All three of those institutions are members of the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, the ACUFC.

More predictability with respect to funding and rules around international students for all institutions would help avoid some of the more difficult situations. We would like to see more predictability in a lot of ways, especially around federal funding, which fluctuates every year based on available envelopes.

There also needs to be more regular communication between institutions, which organizations like ours speak on behalf of, and the various levels of government, including those of the provinces and territories. That would make us more efficient, thereby boosting capacity at all institutions in the network, which is something all communities really want. Intergovernmental coordination is becoming increasingly important to avoid things like programs at francophone institutions across the country being eliminated for all kinds of reasons in recent years.

[Jim Belanger, Conservative, Sudbury East—Manitoulin—Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

You can have the rest of my time, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Normand, you said that one of your three recommendations was support for the production of evidence. Can you tell us what you mean by evidence? Is it data related to rights holders? Can you give us your definition of evidence?

[Martin Normand]

We're talking about two pieces of evidence.

The recommendation refers specifically to the early childhood education research capacity we are developing at the ACUFC. A new colleague is piloting new programs to create new data. There is actually very little data on francophone early childhood education. There hasn't been much investment in research in that field, so we're trying to create early childhood education research capacity to create the data we need to support the sector. That's part of it.

The next type of data we want to work on relates to the issue we addressed earlier. We know that education is under provincial jurisdiction. Because of that, when collecting data at the national level, there may be additional barriers to data comparability. We're working with our institutions to build the necessary capacity to collect ongoing data on the number of programs, the number of full-time students and the number of international students and their country of origin.

There are all kinds of tools we can use in our public advocacy and in orienting the actions of our association and our members.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Normand.

The data on rights holders is also important. Instead of estimating them, we should count them, but that's another problem.

My next question is for Ms. Côté.

In your presentation, you said that your organization manages federal funds for the province.

Can you tell us more about that?

[Isabelle Côté]

That was the federal-provincial agreement. Every year, the provincial government receives federal funds, and the Ministry of Education gives the funds to the Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs. We then support programs at the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences and the Faculty of Education. Materially, our support pays professors' and researchers' salaries—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Sorry to interrupt you, Ms. Côté.

My understanding is that your organization receives funding meant for Simon Fraser University, not funding meant for the province.

[Isabelle Côté]

Yes, that's right. Pardon me.

We aren't a department that offers programs. We are the Office of Francophone and Francophile Affairs, which manages its funds within the university. We always work in collaboration those two large faculties, the Faculty of Arts and the Faculty of Education.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Côté.