Evidence of meeting #2 for Physician-Assisted Dying in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was physician-assisted.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Joanne Klineberg  Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Jeanette Ettel  Senior Counsel, Human Rights Law Section, Department of Justice
Judith G. Seidman  Senator, Quebec (De la Durantaye), C
James S. Cowan  Senator, Nova Scotia, Lib.
Nancy Ruth  Senator, Ontario (Cluny), C
Joint Chair  Hon. Kelvin Kenneth Ogilvie (Senator, Nova Scotia (Annapolis Valley - Hants), C

January 18th, 2016 / 2 p.m.

Liberal

The Joint Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant (Don Valley West, Lib.)) Liberal Rob Oliphant

I will call our second meeting of the Special Joint Committee on Physician-Assisted Dying to order. I believe we have a quorum. Welcome back.

This afternoon we begin with witnesses from the Department of Justice.

Thank you very much for appearing before us today on relatively short notice. We'd like to take about 20 minutes. I'm going to be a little bit liberal with you, because you're going to help us lay the groundwork for where we stand. Given the mandate of this committee to advise the minister on the changes in legislation that will be required, your advice and wisdom will be extremely helpful.

We have a number of new committee members here. We'll hear from witnesses for 20 minutes and they'll be able to divide the time up between themselves.

I hope you will introduce yourselves so we will have an understanding of who you are and why you're here. Then we'll begin the first, second, and, I expect, third rounds of questioning this afternoon.

Thank you.

2 p.m.

Joanne Klineberg Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Thank you very much.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here today as the committee begins its study of the very difficult, complex, and profound question of physician-assisted dying.

Before I get going, I would just apologize for not having available my opening remarks in both English and French, which I know the committee likes to see. That is on account of the short notice we had. My apologies for that.

I'm Joanne Klineberg. I am senior counsel with the criminal law policy section of the Department of Justice. My colleague here is Jeanette Ettel. She is senior counsel with the human rights law section of the Department of Justice. Just by way of background, ever so briefly, both Jeanette and I were part of the litigation team that worked on the Carter case, helping our litigators behind the scenes.

Today I will make some brief opening remarks to provide this committee with some background on the criminal law-related aspects of this issue. It may be helpful to begin with a very brief summary of what the court found in Carter.

In its ruling, the Supreme Court found that the blanket prohibitions against physician-assisted dying violated the right to life, liberty, and security of the person in a manner that was not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice, and that the violation could not be justified as a reasonable limit in a free and democratic society. The court concluded, at paragraph 105, that, “While there are risks, to be sure, a carefully designed and managed system is capable of adequately addressing them”.

As a result, and as noted at paragraph 127 of the ruling, the provisions were found to be unconstitutional to the extent that they prevent competent adults from obtaining assistance to die when they clearly consent to the termination of life and have a grievous and irremediable medical condition that causes enduring suffering that is intolerable to the person.

As a preliminary matter, there sometimes appears to be some uncertainty, at least among some Canadians, about what physician-assisted dying is and what it is not. Physician-assisted dying is not the act of withdrawing medical treatment that a patient does not want, nor does it refer to a patient's right to refuse treatment or medicine in the first place. In these circumstances, if death does result from the withdrawal or the refusal of the medication, this is not a crime because the cause of death is the underlying medical condition. No mentally competent person can be compelled to receive treatment they do not want, as this would amount to an assault in criminal law and also a civil wrong. Physician-assisted dying refers to conduct that involves someone, a physician, actively participating in bringing about the death of another person.

Before Carter, this kind of conduct in any form was criminally prohibited in a variety of ways. The court considered that only two Criminal Code provisions were at the core of the prohibition against physician-assisted dying. The first is section 14 of the Criminal Code, which states:

No person is entitled to consent to have death inflicted on him, and such consent does not affect the criminal responsibility of any person by whom death may be inflicted on the person by whom consent is given.

Section 14, therefore, operates in conjunction with the crime of murder, which is in essence the intentional causing of another person's death. Section 14 means that a person's consent to die has no effect on the criminal responsibility of the one who caused their death. It has always been murder, even if the victim wanted to die.

The second provision is paragraph 241(b) of the Criminal Code, which reads, everyone who “aids or abets a person to commit suicide, whether suicide ensues or not, is guilty of an indictable offence” punishable by up to 14 years in prison.

These two provisions prevented a person from receiving a physician's help to die in all circumstances. It is critical to note that, like most other criminal provisions, they are of a general nature. They also serve to prevent non-physicians from helping others to die in situations that are totally outside the context of physician-assisted dying.

These two provisions were at issue because there are two ways in which a physician can help a person. One is by providing the person with the means to end their own life, such as by providing or prescribing a lethal dose of drugs. The individual who receives the assistance takes the necessary final actions that cause their own death. They are the agent of their own death, with someone else's assistance. This is known as physician-assisted suicide.

The other way is generally referred to as euthanasia. It is where the physician directly causes the person's death, typically by injecting a lethal medication. This does meet the definition of murder, which is the most serious offence in Canadian criminal law. It is punishable by a mandatory sentence of life in prison and at least 10 years of parole ineligibility.

Murder is considered the most serious offence under Canadian criminal law and in most other countries, because one person is actually causing the death of another rather than just helping that person end their own life. The differences between the two practices, including the different types of risk that each could entail, formed no part of the litigation before the Supreme Court. The court did not differentiate between the practices but dealt with both under the general term “physician-assisted dying”, or “physician-assisted death”.

On another general note about terminology, it may not surprise the committee to know that there are differing views on which terminology should be used in this particular context. Some stakeholders take the view that the expressions “physician-assisted suicide” and “euthanasia” are well defined and clear and must be used in order to avoid confusion and misunderstanding that arise from more general terms like “physician-assisted dying”. Others disagree with the use of the terms “physician-assisted suicide“ and “euthanasia”, believing that they are loaded and stigmatizing terms and that only something more general, like “physician-assisted dying“ should be used. This is just one of the many difficult issues that this committee will face.

One overarching consideration the committee will encounter very quickly is the divided jurisdictional nature of physician-assisted dying in Canada. Under our constitution, Parliament has exclusive jurisdiction for criminal law. The Supreme Court confirmed in Carter, at paragraph 51, that Parliament has the power to make laws that touch on health on the grounds of dangerousness or social undesirability. The criminal law is about morality and fundamental values such as those related to the devaluation of human life. It can also reflect public health concerns such as risk of abuse and the safety of individuals, particularly vulnerable individuals. Parliament's concerns, from a criminal law perspective in the context of physician-assisted dying, therefore relate to the minimization of risks and the protection of social values that are considered to be of fundamental importance in Canadian society.

The provinces and territories also have constitutional responsibilities in the context of physician-assisted dying. They are responsible for hospitals, the delivery of health care, and the regulation of the medical professions, among other things. At the policy level, the constitutional jurisdiction of the provinces and territories in this area relates to how to make physician-assisted dying available as a beneficial health practice.

There are aspects of physician-assisted dying regulation that could be seen to fall squarely within Parliament's criminal jurisdiction, such as the essential elements of an exemption from what would otherwise be considered criminal conduct. There are also elements that could be seen to fall squarely into provincial jurisdiction, such as conscience protections for physicians who seek to balance the competing rights of physicians against those of patients. There are also issues that could potentially be regulated by both levels of government but again from different perspectives: by Parliament, from the perspective of minimizing risk and protecting public health and morality, and by the provinces and territories, from the perspective of making available a beneficial health practice.

In this regard, Canada is unique compared to the other jurisdictions that have legislated in relation to physician-assisted dying. In all other places around the world, the same level of government is responsible for both criminal and health laws, so your challenge is especially daunting.

In the United States, four states have legislated access to physician-assisted dying. In the country of Colombia, the supreme court ruled on two occasions that terminally ill individuals had the right to a physician's help to die, and in early 2015 the government published a detailed resolution on the practices that should be followed, though technically this resolution does not have the force of law. In Europe, three countries have legislated access to physician-assisted dying: Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, which collectively can sometimes be called the Benelux countries.

You may also hear references to Switzerland, where a form of physician-assisted dying is available. Although the practice is not considered criminal, it is also not regulated in any specific way, so there is no law to look to that outlines the situation in Switzerland. Finally, there is also the law in Quebec that came into force recently.

These are the only existing models for physician-assisted dying. These laws have many common features that are important from the criminal law point of view.

One, they permit either one or both practices, that is, either physician-assisted suicide or euthanasia or both. Two, they describe the medical and other circumstances that render a person eligible to receive physician-assisted dying. Three, they contain some form of mandatory procedures to be followed in assessing a request for physician-assisted dying. Four, they contain some form of mechanism to review the patient's request, to determine whether all of the applicable rules have been complied with. Five, they also contain some form of mechanism for the collection of data on all individual cases of physician-assisted dying, which is then analyzed and made public.

Sorry, I've just received a note, and I will confirm that we will be sharing copies of the report, which are on their way to the committee. The report is also now live on the Department of Justice website, I believe. Sorry for that interruption, but I thought you would want to know.

Those are the five critical elements that you see in all these physician-assisted dying laws. I'll talk more about these elements shortly, as these really reflect the major policy issues for this committee to look at in considering a Canadian physician-assisted dying law, in addition to determining the extent to which these elements should be addressed at the federal level or left for the provinces and territories to regulate.

In terms of procedures for assessing requests, compliance review with requests for physician-assisted dying, and the monitoring of physician-assisted dying, most laws contain relatively consistent features. However, the choices made in these other places in respect of which practices would be permitted and who is eligible are quite different.

In terms of whether physician-assisted suicide and/or euthanasia are permitted, about half of the laws permit only physician-assisted suicide, and of the other half, some permit only euthanasia and some permit both.

In terms of medical eligibility, the laws can be characterized as falling into two categories that are quite distinct at the conceptual level and, as a result, in terms of their scope in concrete human terms.

The U.S. laws, Quebec, and the Colombian resolution permit physician-assisted dying only for people who are nearing a natural death that otherwise cannot be avoided—natural in the sense that it is as a result of an illness. In essence, these laws give people who are dying, who are at the end of life, a choice of how to die. They can die from their underlying condition, or if they would find such a death prolonged, painful, frightening, or otherwise undignified, they can choose a peaceful death with a physician's help.

It should be noted that these laws define the end-of-life circumstances somewhat differently. For example, the U.S. states make a person eligible if they are terminally ill and have a prognosis of six months or less, with no requirement that they be unbearably suffering. The Quebec law, on the other hand, contains a more general requirement that the person be at the end of life, without any reference to a particular prognosis, and does include a requirement that they be suffering unbearably, as well as some other requirements.

The Benelux laws are different. While these laws do allow individuals at the end of life to choose how to die, they also provide people who are not dying, but instead who are suffering from serious chronic but otherwise not life-threatening conditions, with a choice to end their lives if they find continued living intolerable. Conceptually, these laws provide physician-assisted dying as a means of relieving intolerable suffering from one's medical circumstances, because people can experience suffering not only as part of the dying process but also from living with difficult medical conditions. As a result, the Benelux approach to eligibility includes a wide range of circumstances, such as people suffering on account of mental illnesses, individuals who are tired of life but not necessarily ill, and individuals who fear future pain or suffering. Data from Belgium and the Netherlands seem to indicate that the circumstances for which physician-assisted dying is sought continue to expand, all within the confines of the law.

Over the past several years there have been a number of high-profile and controversial cases in Belgium and the Netherlands that have received international media attention. It is also interesting to note that the differences in scope of eligibility are also reflected in the Belgian law under which, for example, amendments in 2014 made physician-assisted dying available to children of any age, but within a narrower scope of eligibility than is available to adults. Specifically, physician-assisted dying is permitted for children only when the child would die in the short term, is experiencing unbearable physical pain—but not mental pain—and only where additional safeguards are satisfied.

A review of these laws provides a fairly effective road map for the policy issues before this committee. In terms of policy issues to consider from a criminal law point of view, Parliament would be considering an exemption for conduct that is otherwise criminal, namely, the crimes of aiding suicide and murder, which correspond to the two different types of physician-assisted dying. An exemption is needed to shield physicians and possibly other medical practitioners, such as pharmacists and nurses, who may provide assistance in physician-assisted dying from criminal liability.

First, the committee may consider whether an exemption should be created to only one offence or to both. It may also want to consider whether any specific additional limitations should be made from a safety, risk minimization, public health, or morality point of view, such as whether physician-assisted suicide should be required to be supervised by a physician in order to minimize the risk of a person taking the drugs when they are intoxicated or the risk of medical complications from taking the drugs alone; or instead, whether it would be appropriate for the patient to receive the lethal medication to take home for use at a time and place of their choosing. The committee will likely hear a range of different views on which practice or practices to make available and what the relative merits and risks of each are.

The second question is eligibility, which would define the circumstances necessary for the exemption to apply. The court clearly limited its ruling to mentally competent adults, but some stakeholders may express the view that physician-assisted dying should also be available to children where they are capable of discernment. Only two countries, Belgium and the Netherlands, currently provide this access to children.

In terms of the person's medical situation, the Supreme Court did not highlight any particular medical condition. It defined the scope of the right from a general medical perspective as applying where a person experienced enduring intolerable suffering as a result of a “grievous or irremediable” illness. If one looks at the dictionary, one sees that “grievous” is typically defined as very serious, severe or grave. “Grievous” does not appear to be a medical term. It is employed in the Criminal Code, in the phrase “grievous bodily harm”, which courts have held to mean a harm or injury that is very severe or serious, but not limited to a harm or injury that is permanent or life threatening. The court also held that “irremediable” does not require the patient to undertake treatments that are not acceptable to the individual.

On their face, these terms could be interpreted as being quite broad or even narrow.

The court, at paragraph 127, expressly limited its ruling to the factual circumstances of the case. Gloria Taylor suffered from the terminal disease of ALS and actually died of natural causes while the court case was still proceeding. Kay Carter was 88 years old and suffered from severe spinal stenosis, which rendered her largely immobilized. Both women were, arguably, at the end of their lives. The court said that it makes no pronouncements on other circumstances in which physician-assisted dying may be sought. Other aspects of the ruling may arguably appear to equate physician-assisted dying with other forms of end-of-life care. Thus, the scope of the constitutional right pronounced by the court is not entirely clear.

The court was determining whether the absolute prohibition was consistent with charter rights. The court also made clear that it was Parliament's task to undertake the policy work and to make the difficult policy decisions. The court recognized, at paragraphs 97, 98, and 125, that complex regulatory regimes are better created by Parliament than by the courts, that a number of possible solutions may exist, that these issues involve complex issues of social policy and a number of competing social values, that Parliament must weigh and balance the perspectives of those who might be at risk in a permissive regime against those who might seek a physician's assistance to die, and that a complex regulatory regime would be entitled to more deference from the court than the absolute prohibition.

In light of the uncertainty surrounding the meaning of the key terms and the constitutional dialogue that is permissible between the courts and Parliament, it is open to Parliament to provide a greater or narrower scope to the words of the Supreme Court, provided that it respects the constitutional parameters set by the court's judgment and that the evidence presented to and considered by Parliament justifies such legislative measures.

The committee will no doubt hear different views from stakeholders on the question of eligibility and which physician-assisted dying practice should be permitted. Those who are more concerned about individual autonomy will favour more choice and more access. Those who are more concerned about risks to the vulnerable and about social values, such as public messaging about the quality and value of lives of individuals with disabilities, will likely favour more limits and restrictions.

Other policy issues for the committee to consider could include whether to include procedural safeguards that should be applied in assessing requests; whether to include a mechanism for reviewing whether those procedures had been complied with; and whether to include a mechanism for collecting data for the purpose of analysis and publication, and in order to detect trends and potential abuse.

Those are my hopefully brief opening remarks. We would be happy to take your questions.

2:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Joint Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant) Liberal Rob Oliphant

Very good—and very good timing as well, thank you. That was very thorough and a helpful way to begin our committee.

I'm assuming the committee has questions.

Ms. Dabrusin, would you like to begin?

2:20 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

Thank you.

Having looked at the legislation that has been put in place in other jurisdictions, what do you see as this committee's greatest challenges in trying to create a framework of our own?

2:20 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Joanne Klineberg

In the Canadian context, the jurisdictional difficulties will be a big challenge. In all the other places, one level of government makes all the decisions and really administers the regime. In Canada, because the regulation of the health practice, the health delivery, is under provincial and territorial jurisdiction but the criminal law is under federal jurisdiction, I think a very big challenge will be deciding which aspects of a physician-assisted dying regime are best dealt with at the federal criminal level and which elements are best dealt with at the provincial level.

I think another major challenge, more from a policy perspective, will be achieving some consensus on the question of under what conditions a person should be eligible to receive physician-assisted dying.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

If I may follow up, do you know of any other jurisdictions that have studied the possibility of such legislation and that have a constitutional framework that's similar to ours here in Canada?

2:25 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Joanne Klineberg

I don't know of any that have a similar constitutional framework. That said, there certainly are many other jurisdictions that have considered legislation in this area. There are other models you might wish to look at, but none where I'm aware of...their constitutional frameworks.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

You mentioned that we might want to look at some other models, or other studies. Where would you recommend we also look?

2:25 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Joanne Klineberg

The Parliament of the United Kingdom has looked at this issue quite a few times over the last 20 years. They had a parliamentary committee study the issue in the mid-2000s, I believe.

They also recently had something akin to a private member's bill that was debated and was defeated I believe in September of last year. One of the interesting features of that legislation is that it would have adopted a model quite close to the U.S. state model, which is physician-assisted suicide only and only where the person is terminally ill and facing death in the short term.

One of the interesting things about the U.K. legislation is that they clearly were just uncomfortable with the idea. In the U.S. models, the patient receives the prescription, which they then take home. About one third of patients don't ever take it. About two-thirds do, but they're able to take it whenever they feel the need.

I think the U.K. Parliament was troubled by the prospect of those drugs being available to the person, perhaps to take at a time when they were not competent. They developed a process whereby the medication would only be delivered to the person at the time when they were going to take it. They would always be in the presence of a medical professional. If they decided not to take it after it had been delivered, then the drugs would be removed by the medical professional. They could always be brought to the patient again on another occasion.

That's an interesting thing to look at if you're interested in this area, because it does provide a model for a supervised physician-assisted suicide regime.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

Do you know of any other regimes you've looked at? Are there any other models for supervised physician...?

2:25 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Joanne Klineberg

That's the only one of that sort that I'm aware of. I believe there also have been some bills studied recently by the legislature of Scotland, and probably also in a number of jurisdictions in Australia. I haven't looked at those very closely. There are also always a handful under debate in legislatures in the various U.S. states.

There's quite a number. If one goes back 10 years or so, one could find quite a number.

Of course, in the Parliament of Canada there have been private members' bills recently. Bill S-225 was introduced in the Senate last session. That's another model you could look at.

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON

Thank you.

2:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Thank you, Ms. Klineberg. You spoke briefly with respect to the models in the Benelux countries. I was wondering if you might comment on whether it would be fair to say that the Supreme Court contemplated a legal regime quite distinct from the Benelux countries. In that context, I would draw your attention to paragraph 111 of the Carter decision wherein the court said that cases of assistance in dying in Belgium were inapplicable because they “would not fall within the parameters suggested in these reasons, such as euthanasia for minors or persons with psychiatric disorders or minor medical conditions.”

I was wondering what your thoughts are on that.

2:30 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Joanne Klineberg

All I can really share with the committee is that there are different ways of reading and interpreting the Supreme Court ruling. Some ways focus on the dictionary definition of the key terms and some ways may focus more on a contextual reading of the case. For instance, there's a variety of places in the court's ruling where they talk about physician-assisted dying in a manner that compares it to other end-of-life decision-making, so that might suggest to some that they were thinking in more of an end-of-life context.

There are the words in paragraph 127 where they talk about the ruling being responsive to the facts of the case and not to any other circumstances, so the facts of Kay Carter's and Gloria Taylor's medical situations may be of interest to you.

I think it's a very good question, one for which I can't really provide a concrete answer except to say that it's subject to being interpreted in a variety of different ways. I guess I would bring you back to what the court said was really Parliament's task, which is to make the tough policy choices. I think the court understood that it wasn't its role to be legislating on behalf of Canadians. It was deciding a very specific constitutional question that was before it, namely, whether the prohibition in an absolute form was constitutional. It may be just as important for you to consider the full range of information that is before you, as it is to try to decipher with precision what it was the court was saying.

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Okay. I guess if Parliament decided to adopt, for example, what might be characterized as a permissive legal framework that included one or more of the groups identified at paragraph 111, whether it be minors or people with minor medical disorders, it would be accurate to say that type of framework would run the risk of a section 7 challenge.

2:30 p.m.

Jeanette Ettel Senior Counsel, Human Rights Law Section, Department of Justice

I think the starting point is just to note the litigation that's already under way in Quebec in the D'Amico and Saba case, where a constitutional challenge has been brought, mainly on division of powers grounds but also on charter grounds, to the legislation that's recently come into force there. One of the arguments that's been put forward is that the legislation creates insufficient safeguards to protect the vulnerable. It's also been alleged that it is contrary to the section 7 life, liberty and security-of-the-person rights and section 15 equality rights for people who are at risk under what is alleged to be a permissive regime.

I don't think there's any easy answer to your question, though, about what we take from the Carter ruling itself, just because of the way in which cases like this are decided. What was before the court was a very specific constitutional question framed in light of the specific applicants and the specific plaintiffs that were before the court. The court had to decide whether the blanket prohibition was unconstitutional, but then the further constitutional implications of where the lines get drawn, whether Parliament chooses to go narrower or broader than what might appear to be the language in the Carter decision, are going to be a matter for another new piece of litigation. We can't really know, until we have Parliament's objective and the evidence before it, how that assessment is going to be made in the end.

2:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Joint Co-Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant) Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you, Ms. Ettel.

Mr. Rankin or Ms. Sansoucy, you have the floor.

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC

I am going to share my speaking time with my colleague.

I just wanted to pose a question to Ms. Klineberg that some of us have been asked, particularly with regard to remote communities of Canada, where physicians may not be available to provide the constitutionally mandated service that the court has unanimously said is available. According to her reading of the Carter decision, would it be legitimate for nurses, under some sort of supervision, to perhaps be available for that?

Number one, do you think that would be a legitimate part of our work? Number two, would it be within the federal domain should we choose to do so?

2:35 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Joanne Klineberg

I'll start with the second part of your question, which I think was about the jurisdiction responsible for that.

Which types of facilities may engage in which types of health care practices, and so on, is probably predominantly a provincial and territorial matter. The regulation of doctors and physicians, and what each is able to do—I know that some provinces have nurses who are able to do some functions that are otherwise limited to physicians—are parts of provincial and territorial regulation. On the other hand, from a criminal perspective, I would say that there are at least two things you have to keep in mind, though there are surely others as well. First, if you set up a regime such that some requirements in it will bar access to some people in remote locations, that fact may weigh in a court's consideration of the constitutionality of those limits, so any arbitrary barriers to access are something that you should consider.

Second, if it appears as though medical professionals other than physicians must be involved, or will be involved, for reasons of access or otherwise—in this regard, I'm thinking of pharmacists, who are the types of physicians who are dispensing the drugs—any medical practitioners who would be involved may need to be captured under an exemption for otherwise criminal conduct. Failure to include them in an exemption may cause them to be less willing than they otherwise would be, so there's a real, pure criminal law angle to ensure that any exemption would cover all of those who would be involved. There's also a policy question, which relates to the levels of expertise they have and whether they can undertake the functions. For instance, assessing an individual's mental competence is a big part of the delivery of physician-assisted dying. Who's able to do that function?

Third, there's the question of access. The committee will no doubt hear about more types of issues that will also bear on that question, but those are, at least, the three that come to mind right now.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Joint Co-Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant) Liberal Rob Oliphant

Ms. Sansoucy, you have the floor.

2:35 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

You have outlined the issue of our double jurisdiction in the area of health very well.

Last December 22, the court of appeal sided with the Government of Quebec. I would like to understand what motivated the Minister of Justice to mandate the Attorney General of Canada to challenge the setting aside of the superior court's decision.

2:35 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Joanne Klineberg

Unfortunately, I am not in a position to explain the minister's reasoning. I can however say that one of the reasons why the constitutionality of the Quebec law raises questions is the fact that the issue is a matter of shared jurisdiction, and criminal law is of exclusive federal jurisdiction.

The Quebec law says that whoever acts pursuant to section 26 of the law is not guilty of a criminal offence. A court might decide that this is a matter of criminal law and that the provinces and territories do not have the jurisdiction to determine in which circumstances a given act is criminal or not. So there is a constitutional issue. That is all I can say about that.

2:35 p.m.

NDP

Brigitte Sansoucy NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Thank you.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Joint Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant) Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you.

Senator Seidman.

2:40 p.m.

Judith G. Seidman Senator, Quebec (De la Durantaye), C

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much. This is a complicated issue, of course.

In reviewing Quebec's Bill 52, An Act respecting end-of-life care, have you encountered problems specifically with regard to those jurisdictional issues that you have put forward as huge challenges—issues or problems that we might keep in mind specifically when making recommendations for federal legislation?