Evidence of meeting #32 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Wayne Wouters  Secretary of the Treasury Board
Robert Wright  Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
Hugh MacPhie  As an Individual
Sara Beth Mintz  As an Individual

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Order. I want to welcome everyone here.

Colleagues, this meeting is called pursuant to a motion made on March 13 of this year that the committee call certain witnesses to review certain select contracts made by the Department of Finance. As I think everyone is now aware, today's meeting will be broken into three segments. In the first segment, which will last one hour, we will hear from the deputy minister, who is also the accounting officer with the Department of Finance, Mr. Rob Wright. Also, we have the Secretary of the Treasury Board, Mr. Wayne Wouters.

Welcome. We understand that each of you has an opening statement. Perhaps we will go to you first, Mr. Wright.

May 13th, 2008 / 11 a.m.

Conservative

John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, you mentioned that we'll have three segments, the first hour being the gentlemen we have here right now, followed by two individuals, followed by, from one o'clock to two o'clock, the Minister of Finance, the Honourable Jim Flaherty.

I've mentioned this to you before, Mr. Chairman, but I have a really hard time with these three-hour meetings. Standard meetings for all House of Commons committees is two hours.

I have issues to deal with. I have constituents in town I'm supposed to have taken for lunch. Because somebody decided that we're going to spend three hours of the entire committee on a simple little contract of some $120,000, I am really put out by this. I really would like you to take control of this committee and make sure that we abide by two-hour meetings every time, because MPs are busy, they all have things they want to do. And as I say, I have constituents who are going to go back home and say their MP didn't have time to talk to them, because I'm here doing a simple little thing, with three hours and 13 people focused on a $120,000 contract.

I need to know. I'm quite sure that our member on the steering committee didn't approve the three-hour meeting. If you had supported him, there would have been no agreement that the steering committee have a three-hour meeting. So I want your assurance that these things are not going to happen from here on in.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Mr. Williams, first of all, you're wrong on your assumptions. This matter was decided by the committee as a whole—

11 a.m.

Conservative

John Williams Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Well, it shouldn't be. The steering committee runs the meetings.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Please let me speak.

This meeting was discussed, debated, and ruled on by the committee, it was voted, and they voted to have a three-hour meeting.

Mr. Wright, the floor is yours.

11 a.m.

Wayne Wouters Secretary of the Treasury Board

Perhaps, Mr. Chair, I could go first.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

That's fine.

11 a.m.

Secretary of the Treasury Board

Wayne Wouters

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, good morning.

I was invited to appear before this committee today to address your questions on the role of the Treasury Board and its secretariat in regards to government procurement.

As the government's management board, one of the Treasury Board's key responsibilities is to set the rules, standards, and performance expectations for public sector management government-wide. If I could, I'll take a few minutes to give you a quick overview of the management responsibilities for federal institutions.

The Treasury Board Secretariat supports the Treasury Board in its role through a number of activities. This includes setting management policies and assessing management performance in departments through the management accountability framework. The secretariat also supports departments by providing guidance and tools and developing capacity in key functional communities through learning and development activities.

Deputies have the responsibility to ensure that the day-to-day management of their departments comply with Treasury Board management policies. They are also responsible for ensuring that appropriate controls are in place for the sound management of the institution's human and financial resources.

Ministers are also accountable to Parliament for the use of funds in their institutions and their offices. They are also accountable for complying with and ensuring that their exempt staff comply with the Policies and Guidelines for Ministers' Offices. This document sets out financial, personal, and administrative guidelines and policies that govern expenses incurred by ministers and their exempt staff, including contracting. The guidelines clearly stipulate that unless specifically exempted, ministers and ministers' budgets are subject to Treasury Board policies and regulations.

Procurement is one of the key management functions in the government. To give you a sense of the significance of procurement in the Government of Canada, in 2006 the government attributed close to 400,000 contracts, for a total value of more than $12 billion. Of the total number of contracts, 4,700, or 1%, are sole-source contracts over $25,000. A well-managed procurement function is essential to the effective and efficient operations of government. Upholding the principles of fairness, openness, and transparency to achieve value for money for Canadians in contracting is the foundation on which the Government of Canada's contracting policy is built.

I mentioned the management accountability framework. The MAF is used to assess, on an annual basis, the management performance and capacity of each department. This assessment is used to establish priorities and plans for management improvement. In fact the Clerk of the Privy Council uses the MAF as an integral part of his performance assessments of deputy heads. We have been using the MAF now for five years, and procurement management practices is one of the areas we have been measuring since the inception of MAF. One key element that we measure is whether departments have the right oversight and controls in place. Although there is still room for improvement, when we look at procurement through the MAF lens we find that institutions have strengthened their contracting controls and practices over the last three years. As a result, the number of organizations rated positively has risen.

With the coming into force of different components of the Federal Accountability Act and the implementation of key initiatives from the federal accountability action plan, we have taken further steps to strengthen contracting practices in government. For example, an overarching statement of principle in procurement that commits the government to promoting fairness, openness, and transparency in the bidding process has been incorporated into the legislation through the Financial Administration Act. Also, since 2004 all contracts over $10,000 are proactively disclosed on government websites. The proactive disclosure of contracts contributes to the principles of openness and transparency, strengthens accountability in government, and ensures fairness in contracting activities.

Furthermore, the government adopted a new code of conduct for procurement in September of last year. As well, a procurement ombudsman designate has been appointed, and draft regulations to define the scope of his duties and functions were posted in December. The ombudsman's mandate is to review procurement practices across government, handle complaints from potential suppliers, review complaints regarding contract administration, and ensure the provision of an alternative dispute resolution process for contracts.

We're also making sure that practitioners have the tools, skills, knowledge, and expertise they need to do their work. That's why we are further developing capacity in the procurement, materiel, and real property management communities. Our professional development and certification program is one example. Finalized in 2006, it is designed to provide learning tools to approximately 10,000 functional specialists involved in the acquisition and management of assets and services. The program includes a competency standard and web-based assessment tools, a program curriculum, and a certification component to give federal government practitioners a professional designation from the Canadian General Standards Board.

Mr. Chair, I hope that this quick overview of the role of the Secretariat of the Treasury Board and of some of the activities we are conducting is useful for the committee. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you. Merci.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Thank you very much, Mr. Wouters.

We're now going to hear from Mr. Wright. Please go ahead, sir.

11:05 a.m.

Robert Wright Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am pleased to be here today. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to make a few comments. I read the committee's motion and welcome an open dialogue on these important matters.

In this respect, I would note that my department had two contracts with Mr. Hugh MacPhie that predate his work for the minister's office in Budget 2007.

In the fall of 2006, Mr. MacPhie was engaged by the chairperson of the expert panel for the children's fitness tax credit, Dr. Kellie Leitch, to assist in drafting the panel's final report and recommendations. This was an independent panel operating at arm's length from the department. It was to provide the minister with timely advice on the definition of programs that should be eligible for the children's fitness tax credit proposed in Budget 2006.

The contract was managed by officials in the department's Tax Policy Branch.

Mr. MacPhie was subsequently hired by our communications branch in the Department of Finance to provide strategic communications advice and to assist in drafting the fall 2006 Advantage Canada economic plan that accompanied our fall economic statement. The decision to engage Mr. MacPhie was linked to his strong knowledge of the minister's communication style and our experience with him on that earlier project. I had some contact with Mr. MacPhie personally on this project and can attest to the quality of the work. In fact, when I briefed my deputy colleagues on Advantage Canada, I referred to the job he did in communicating this in quite a unique and helpful way for us.

Separate from these two contracts, the minister's office also issued two other contracts related to the two witnesses you have called before this committee, one with Mr. MacPhie and the other with Sara Mintz.

According to guidelines set out for ministers by the Privy Council Office, ministers, and I quote:

...are personally responsible for the conduct and operation of their offices. They hire their own office staff, who are known as “political” or “exempt” staff. The staff are outside the official public service and are exempt from Public Service Commission staffing and other controls.

They are not my staff. Treasury Board, as my colleague mentioned, issues policies and guidelines for ministers' offices based on these PCO guidelines. Part 4 of these guidelines states that

Ministers are individually responsible and accountable for...expenditures made for their offices--whether by them directly [or] by their staff....

Ministers often delegate some of this authority to their chiefs of staff. They practically always do and should appropriately do so, as was done in this case.

Treasury Board guidelines on contracting for ministers' offices are very specific in terms of processes that must be followed. Under these guidelines, ministers' offices may request advice on contracting procedures from the department, which in the case of these two specific contracts was provided by departmental officials. My officials also processed the payments under the contracts once the minister's chief of staff at the time, who was the contract authority in these cases, certified that the work was delivered as specified, as required under the Financial Administration Act.

I would now be happy to provide answers to the best of my knowledge and ability with respect to any questions that committee members might have for me, whether for the contracts administered by the Department of Finance itself or for the department's administrative support for contracts entered into by the minister's office.

Merci.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Thank you very much, Mr. Wright.

We're going to go now to the first round. We'll only have one round. There are six examiners at seven minutes each. Before we go to Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, I want to point out to the members that we're dealing with specific issues here. I would ask that you keep your questions short and brief. Similarly, I would ask the witnesses to keep your answers to the point and to be as succinct and as brief as possible.

Also, I want to take this opportunity to remind members, in their examination of these two witnesses before us, of the recent changes made in the Federal Accountability Act, which have codified the rule that the accounting officer--in this case, Mr. Wright--is accountable to Parliament for the prudent management of resources allocated to their department so that it is in compliance with Treasury Board policies, regulations, and standards, and that the Secretary of the Treasury Board has responsibility to ensure that the accounting officers are aware of these obligations, that the departments have the capacity to fulfill these obligations, and that any breaches be addressed.

That having been said, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, you have seven minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, gentlemen, to the public accounts committee.

Deputy Minister Wright, did you personally know that Minister Flaherty was offering untendered contracts to Mr. MacPhie?

11:10 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Robert Wright

In terms of the minister's office, I did know. In fact, they did seek advice from our contracting experts on engaging Mr. MacPhie. They were given some advice. Yes, I knew that they executed that contract.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Through the access to information process we've in fact seen that a number of your officials appear to have been quite concerned. Mike Giles, head of material management in your department, and Sabrina Whelan, senior contracting officer, clearly expressed concern about the process they were being asked to perform and offered advice on how the minister's chief of staff, David McLaughlin, should proceed. Yet this untendered contract to a partisan supporter, in clear violation of Treasury Board rules, just kept rolling on.

Mr. Wright, it seems as though each time the process to have this contract awarded hit a snag, Mr. Flaherty's chief of staff, David McLaughlin, requested one-on-one meetings with members of your staff to move the process along. Is that standard practice?

11:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Robert Wright

Yes, it is standard practice where the.... You have to understand, again, that this is not a contracting process. I mentioned two contracts that were let by the Department of Finance.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

We're talking about the contract that ended up costing $122,000.

11:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Robert Wright

You're talking about the contract that was issued....

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

It was for Budget 2007.

11:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Robert Wright

Exactly. That contract was issued by David McLaughlin. As I mentioned, there's an important distinction in terms of ministers' offices and how they're managed. They are all part of the departmental vote. But the ministers' offices are not populated by public servants. The people in those offices do not work with me.

Treasury Board and PCO have been very specific about the rules that should be followed and have been very specific about the roles of the department and the role of the minister's office in that area.

In this case, for the budget of the minister's office within that departmental vote, the minister has delegated authority to contract directly from the Minister of Public Works. He may delegate that to his chief of staff, David McLaughlin, which he did, and sensibly did.

I want to just make one other comment. I alluded to it earlier. Perhaps my opening comment should have been more expansive. Within that budget allocation, the minister has delegated authority for issuing contracts to his chief of staff. That chief of staff is encouraged to seek advice from the department, but he is not required to. That's what he did. He sought advice. He was given advice.

Now, the early advice on that, from Mike Giles, was that this is how you deal with an issue like that, and this is how you approach it. But we did not discuss and we did not release specific advice on this contract, as it is contrary to our approach.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Mr. Wright, how many employees are there in the communications branch of the Department of Finance?

11:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Robert Wright

I don't know the exact number, but—

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Approximately.

11:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Robert Wright

--I can get that. It is maybe 50 or 60, I guess. I'd have to check. Somebody will get me the number right away.

It is 60.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

In your opinion, would there have been officials within that department with the capacity to prepare the communications, the budget speech, in 2007?

11:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Finance

Robert Wright

Well, quite possibly. I think this contract was not let to do the department's work. The contract was let as part of the minister's budget in the minister's office. It was not the department's budget. The expenditure was made from the minister's office to assist him with the political management of the budget preparation, including comments on the speech, liaison with other departments and ministers, and whatever they do in that area.