Public Accounts Committee on June 5th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Mr. Bélanger, your time is up.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

If my colleagues don't have questions, I would like to come back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Sure, definitely.

Monsieur Lussier.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Fraser, in your document, you identify four major sectors of the aeronautic industry and you talk about two of them, those being air operators and maintenance companies.

Did you look into the third and fourth sectors, namely aircraft manufacturers, and airports and air traffic control?

[Sheila Fraser]

No, Mr. Chair, we did not look into those two sectors.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

You reviewed the first two phases in implementing the safety management system. In 2007, the second phase was underway.

Are you aware of indicators pointing to progress on the completion of the third and fourth phases? Is implementation going well?

[Sheila Fraser]

We did not review these other aspects, Mr. Chair, but that question could be put to departmental officials who can tell you how the transition is going.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Ranger, you were to complete a phase by September 2008. How can you guarantee that the four phases will be completed.

[Louis Ranger]

I will refer you to the experts. They can answer that question.

[Marc Grégoire]

I will begin by answering the first part of your question, regarding manufacturers and air traffic control. With respect to air traffic control, we've just published the regulations in January 2008, which includes airports and air traffic control. The process has therefore begun.

With respect to aircraft manufacturers, the regulations will not come into effect for about another two years.

With respect to the deadline of September 2008, Mr. Preuss can provide you with further details on that.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I would be particularly interested in knowing what would be the possible consequences if the four phases are not completed by September 2008.

[Merlin Preuss]

The deadline is imposed through an exemption to the rule, which has been in place since 2005. If we need to modify that implementation period based on whatever risks appear before us, then we're more than willing to do that.

At this point in time, we have no indication that the industry involved in this particular implementation will not be ready and will not pass the evaluations that are the final step in the implementation plan.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

I'm also concerned over training for technicians and engineers. Under point 3.47, it states that:

[...] 15% of inspectors and engineers had not completed the required recurrent training; moreover, we noted that another 15% had not completed their initial training.

Now that several years have passed since the evaluation, what are today's statistics?

Have the numbers improved?

[Merlin Preuss]

In terms of improvement, the latest numbers I have show we've reduced that to 12%, but let me assure you all that our inspectors are not asked to carry out any duties for which they are not trained. That is the policy. If they are in a position where they are not ready to carry out a task, you'll probably find them under some sort of on-the-job training protocol.

The way this is controlled is through the delegations they are asked to participate under. Again, the percentage is high, and we're working on trying to reduce that, but its impact on their ability to perform their duties on the day has been totally controlled.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

In the document, the initial rate is stated to be approximately 8%, but the figures Mr. Ranger provided earlier are a bit contradictory.

Is the fact that several private companies are in the process of implementing safety management systems, does this lead to raiding between the federal government and private companies?

[Louis Ranger]

I'm glad that you asked that question.

I visited the Atlantic region, yesterday...

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

How many employees have you lost?

[Louis Ranger]

Our director of human resources tells me that in the last two weeks, one of our boat inspectors was approached by the owner while he was carrying out his inspection. He was offered a job on the spot, at twice his current rate of pay.

In my introductory statement, I referred to the fact that we are competing with an expanding sector. We invest considerable amounts of money in training. Our people are finally ready, and now they are being solicited.

Those who remain with us despite those very attractive offers,are close to retirement and thinking about their pension. The ones who remain are not the ones we have to train. We need to train newcomers who are still young and who will remain with us for another 10 years. The challenge is significant.

In this context, I cannot give you figures on how we fare in comparison with other sectors, but 8% is not so bad given the circumstances. I am not saying that this is justified; it is just a fact.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Does the public service impose any rules calling for a two-year waiting period between two jobs?

[Louis Ranger]

Are you talking about rules on conflict of interest? Would those rules apply?

[Marc Grégoire]

It applies to managers and assistant deputy ministers, but not to employees.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Therefore, a technician can go from one job to the next.

[Marc Grégoire]

That has always been the case. Ever since I joined Transport Canada, twenty-five years ago, I regularly see aviation, navy, or railway people go from one sector to the other, switching from Industry to Transport, and vice versa.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

The regulations on implementation which have been in effect since May 31, concern air operators and maintenance companies. It affects approximately 74 companies, as is indicated in the documents, and those companies are exempted until September 2008 because implementation will only officially begin in 2008. It is called the transition.

[Marc Grégoire]

Rather than telling companies that they have to comply with regulations that will come into effect in three years, we introduced the regulations they will have to comply with, stating that they would be exempt during the transition period which lasts three years. As Mr. Preuss explained, if our assessment of the situation and events lead us to conclude in September that certain sectors or companies are simply not ready, we will extend the exemption period. However, there is no indication at this time that we will take that route.