Evidence of meeting #11 for Public Accounts in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was general.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
You're good? Okay.
We will move to the government benches, and I understand that Ms. Bateman and Mr. Hayes are going to split their time. Is that news to you or...?
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
He just said that if I take it all, it's okay. What a nice colleague.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Well, I'll tell you what—you have the floor, and what you do with it for five minutes is up to you.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
We were just getting started on a good conversation last time about the professional development that you had the privilege of sharing when you went to Tanzania, and it made me think about the importance of professional development for your team. I just want to make that question a little broader, because your comments about having to be strategic are so appreciated. This government is delivering accountability at an unprecedented level, and it's what we want to accomplish; when we hear that somebody—such as yourself—has actually been strategic and achieved a significant amount, it really matters.
What I want to find out is how you engage your staff, because, pro rata, it's almost as small as your former staff, based on the incremental resources and programs that you will be auditing. How do you engage your staff to get the best possible creativity out of them and—much as you were saying—lead by example, engaging your team? This is a very particular business, and you need people to be very creative when they're looking; it's not about you saying you're going to go and audit this. People have to be creative. How do you enhance that? How do you enable your team to be the best they can? Obviously, I mean within the context of professionalism of the accounting profession.
5:20 p.m.
Nominee for the position of Auditor General of Canada, As an Individual
The only way I can answer that is to say I certainly encourage that type of thinking—the creative thinking, looking for different solutions to a particular issue. I think that's important, and I try to encourage that, usually through engaging in meetings and having discussions with staff about a particular issue, and trying to help them explore the situation. But fundamentally, the creativity of people comes out when they are simply given the opportunity to use their own creativity—when they are encouraged to look at the issue from a different perspective.
That's why I say, in the audit world, one of the things that I would challenge auditors on is if they have a recommendation, how would they actually implement the recommendation? They have to think of it from the point of view of somebody who is on the receiving end of the recommendation as well.
Too often, as auditors, we can take the easy way out and say, “The government should spend more money on....” That is just too easy a recommendation. It is simply a matter of trying to open up that discussion and giving people the room to explore their own creativity.
You mentioned professional development. In the New Brunswick auditor general's office, we went through a couple years of budget reductions. One thing I told the legislative administrative committee was, “Yes, we will take the budget reductions, but we are not reducing training,” because to have a well-run, well-functioning audit office, you have to have people who are current, up-to-date, and understand what the rules around auditing are. I always felt that the right amount of focused training had to be done and you couldn't reduce that as part of a budget exercise.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
That's so appreciated.
Have I left my colleague...?
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Thank you.
Auditors general should value accountability and strong fiscal management. And colleagues who have worked with you have applauded your expertise in deficit reduction and fiscal restraint. Others have praised the critical nature you apply to your work, as well as your honesty and thoroughness.
Can you share with us a couple of thoughts on what accountability and fiscal management mean to you?
5:25 p.m.
Nominee for the position of Auditor General of Canada, As an Individual
One thing I would focus in on is that when I was auditor general I made the recommendation to the previous government that it needed to implement a long-term budget plan. It had made a commitment to get back to a balanced budget, but I felt it had issued some targets and hadn't issued a plan.
Stepping into the role of Deputy Minister of Finance, of course, now means I myself have to live with that recommendation. So we, in the New Brunswick government, are very much right now going through an exercise—and it's not just the Department of Finance, it's really being led out of the executive council office—to develop a long-term plan that is more than just saying here's what the targeted deficit numbers are. Rather, it's something that has more information behind it in terms of how we're going to get back to a balanced budget.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Thank you. We're a little over and I have to cut it there, sir. Sorry.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order. Given that the time has almost expired, I'd like to raise a point of order.
First of all, I understand that the clerk has prepared a motion approving Mr. Ferguson as the Auditor General—
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
I'm waiting for a point of order. What interrupts the proceedings? Please tell me.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
The clerk has a motion proposing that Mr. Ferguson be approved, and I'd like to see that motion.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Well, you're welcome to come over here and have a look at it. But I don't see how that interrupts the rotational speaking. That's what I'm trying to get at.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
We've got two minutes left, Mr. Chair. This has to be introduced prior to the end of the—
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
I have to say that I was kind of surprised when people voted to run the clock, but that's basically what's going to happen. Under the order of this committee, by virtue of your own vote, you said we were going to stay in rotation until the end of this meeting. So unless I hear something that's a point of order, I am immediately going to—
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
I would like to have the clerk present to the committee the motion that she has prepared.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Mr. Saxton, please. Right or wrong, when I ask you to be quiet, I would hope you would respect that.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Mr. Chair, when I ask you to show a motion, I would hope you would respect that as well.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Mr. Saxton, you're trying my patience. Now, please.
Turn that microphone off, please. Thank you.
The next step is that Monsieur Godin has a fraction of the time left. He will start. I will interrupt him when we hit 5:30. This committee then stands adjourned. That's the way we're going.
The point of order had better be very clear and quick, Madame Bateman.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joyce Bateman Conservative Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I have a point of order, sir. As you know, I'm a new member of Parliament. And I want to understand the process here. I just want to understand, if there is a motion and we're deferring that, whether that means that—