Evidence of meeting #41 for Public Accounts in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cost.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Fonberg  Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
André Deschamps  Commander, Royal Canadian Air Force, Department of National Defence
François Guimont  Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Simon Kennedy  Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Michelle d'Auray  Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Kevin Lindsey  Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Corporate Services, Department of National Defence
Dan Ross  Assistant Deputy Minister, Materiel, Department of National Defence
Tom Ring  Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Yes. Thank you, Chair.

In the spirit of cooperation with my friend across the way, I appreciate his endeavours to bring the PBO and our witnesses here back on Thursday. I would like to amend it, though, to include that we have the AG come back next week at the earliest opportunity, which of course would be Tuesday morning, for at least an hour. I would also amend to say that if our witnesses down at the end are not completed on Thursday in the second hour, that they come back for the other hour, whether it be the first or second hour of the day.

It simply gives us some flexibility. If we're finished with all of these witnesses on Thursday, the AG would be the first hour. If not, the AG would be the second hour, and our witnesses would continue in the first hour of next Tuesday, which would be a week today.

I thank the parliamentary secretary for his overtures to make sure we have an opportunity to talk to all of the folks in full on this point.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

All right. In that same spirit, is there a possibility that this could be a friendly amendment, Mr. Saxton? Do you see that consistent with where you are going?

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

I think part of it could be a friendly amendment. I think we would be fine with having the Auditor General come back for the first hour, as Mr. Allen has suggested. I would accept that amendment to my motion.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

All right.

Are you good with that, Mr. Allen? We'll fold into the motion that we will do the first hour with the PBO on Thursday. The second hour will be a continuation. The following Tuesday, the first hour will be the Auditor General, and the second hour is to be determined.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

I would recommend that we say it could be a planning session, or to be determined.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

I'm trying to go for unanimity, and if you can leave it at that, I think that might get us close.

Colleagues, can I quickly ask if anybody has a problem with that? Does anybody need to speak to it? Can you accept that as a work plan going forward, colleagues?

Go ahead, Mr. Byrne.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, I certainly can. It sounds like a good idea. I would have liked to have even more time with this particular group of witnesses because there are some witnesses who we really didn't hear much from because of the limitation of time.

I have a motion that has already been tabled on the floor of the committee calling for the production of documents, and I ask that we deal with it after dealing with this motion. Many of these documents were actually referred to by our witnesses during the course of their testimony, such as the actual statement of operational requirements, the Public Works and Government Services statement that confirms the validity of the statement of operational requirements.

I would like to go ahead and pass this motion. I'm not going to ask for a friendly amendment to it, but as soon as we deal with this, if we could deal with my motion on the production of documents and do so in a public way, I'd appreciate it.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

Okay.

I did recognize Monsieur Ravignat, so I will go to him before I go to you, but I will allow you that opportunity.

However, on the motion that's before us—that's your motion, Mr. Saxton, as amended through friendly discussion—let's have a quick show of hands.

All those in favour, please indicate.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Monsieur Ravignat, you'd asked for the floor earlier.

That has now gone by? Thank you.

Mr. Byrne, you have the floor.

You're bringing forward your notice of motion?

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My notice of motion reads as follows:

That the Committee request, in electronic form, that the Department of National Defence and the Department of Public Works and Government Services provide it with the following documents:

The document that confirms the validity of the Statement of Operational Requirement.

The actual statement of Operational Requirement.

The full life-cycle cost analysis.

The Statement of Work and Performance Specification (Acquisition and in-service support).

The Bid Evaluation criteria.

The Treasury Board Submission for the F-35.

The requisition form for goods and services sent to Public Works and Government Services Canada from National Defence.

The questionnaires explaining the decision to proceed with a sole-source process for this acquisition.

The cost analysis for the infrastructure modification to operate the F-35.

The risk analysis produced by the Department of National Defence and Public Works and Government Services Canada for the acquisition of the F-35.

The cost analysis to keep the actual CF-18 operational until 2023.

The cost analysis for the phasing out of the CF-18.

The option analysis for the replacement of the CF-18; and

That the committee request this information within five calendar days.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

Okay. Very good.

The motion's in order. It's before you. It's debatable.

Mr. Byrne, did you wish to say anything further?

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

No. I think, Mr. Chair, we—

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

“No” and then you start speaking.

10:35 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it very much.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

You're welcome.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

This is all information that was referred to by our committee members, so maybe just let's get on with the vote.

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

Very good. Thank you.

Is there further discussion?

Mr. Saxton.

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The officials here today have promised the documents that you asked for earlier today, that were asked for by the committee. I assume the chair and the clerk will work with them to gather the documents that had been asked of them earlier today.

We do not seek to redo the work of the Auditor General in this committee. We seek to study the report of the Auditor General.

Therefore, Mr. Chair, at this time I would like to move a motion to adjourn.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

The motion's in order. It's not debatable.

Therefore, I'll ask the—

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

I'd like a recorded vote.

10:40 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP David Christopherson

Yes. I was going to ask for a recorded vote myself.

Mr. Byrne has formally requested a recorded vote. I will ask the clerk to conduct a formal roll call vote on the motion to adjourn.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

By order of a vote of seven to four in the affirmative, the motion carries. Therefore, this meeting now stands adjourned.

Thanks to our guests.

We'll see you all again on Thursday.