Evidence of meeting #42 for Public Accounts in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cost.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, I was asked what Treasury Board uses in making decisions. For acquisition projects, in making decisions, we use the duration. For planning purposes, if a department has to…
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
I understood completely. Thank you for the answer.
Did the Department of National Defence specifically ask you if a 20-year period was reasonable?
10:10 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, we are neither at the acquisition stage nor the project stage. So we have not yet received a submission for this acquisition.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
So, there were no consultations on the subject between the Department of National Defence and your office.
10:10 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
The F-35s are not yet at the acquisition stage.
10:15 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Can I finish my answer?
10:15 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Those discussions have not started yet. In the past, for previous submissions, we definitely used the life cycle.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
Fine.
My next question is for the lieutenant-general.
Of course, thank you for being here.
The elephant in the room here is that on Tuesday you said that you were still working on the assumption that the F-35 was the plane that we needed. Now, apart from what the Americans need and apart from what Lockheed Martin needs, what domestic defence needs does Canada have in order to prefer the F-35s above all other planes?
10:15 a.m.
LGen André Deschamps
Thank you for that question.
To go back to what I said on Tuesday, when we look at the needs of the future we have to look at both domestic and international environments where technology will cause us some significant challenges.
It's important to remember that one of the things we're doing is buying a single fleet of fighters. To have, let's say, a home fleet and an away fleet is very expensive. We went away from that in the 1980s, with the F-18, and to go back that way would be even more expensive. So no matter what we consider as the future option, we have to look at a single fleet, multi-roled aircraft to meet all of Canada's needs.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
If you were so sure that the F-35 was the plane, why didn't you go ahead with an open tendering process?
10:15 a.m.
LGen André Deschamps
To go back to 2010 and the analysis we did, we looked at our requirements. We looked at the type of technology that would be required for us to be agile enough to deal with future threats. The analysis led us to a set of requirements.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
10:15 a.m.
LGen André Deschamps
Certainly. In an unclassified way, there are very advanced surface-to-air missile systems currently being fielded by countries. That will proliferate. We see them now proliferating. We expect them to continue proliferating. The technology challenges the airplanes available today. It's very deadly. It's very accurate, and it has very long ranges.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
In your opinion, there's a clear and present threat to Canadian national security with regard to these missiles.
10:15 a.m.
LGen André Deschamps
I don't define national security, sir. What I do, though, is present government with options should it need to exercise those options 30 years from now. I can't predict the future. All I can do is predict where challenges will arise around the world, and at home potentially. Other things that we need to be concerned with--cruise missiles--their technology is proliferating. They were the first automatic UAVs. They were that first generation. UAVs now are very popular. Cruise missiles were that very first version. They only go one way.
The challenge with cruise missile technology is accessible now to many nations, and people are working on building those things to be fired off ships or off airplanes.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP David Christopherson
Your time has expired. Thank you.
Mr. Hawn, you have the floor, sir.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks for coming back.
I have a number of questions. First of all, for Madam d'Auray, Treasury Board has guidelines with respect to predictions and so on, is that correct?
10:15 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Treasury Board has a number of policies and directives and guidelines. They cover a wide range of activities and initiatives.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you. A guideline is simply that: it's a guideline. It doesn't mean everything is going to be cut that way.
10:15 a.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
A guideline is designed to give guidance.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you.
With respect to some costs that were brought up, my understanding of sunk costs is they are things that are there for the F-18 and will be there for the F-35, whether it's pilots, technicians. I guess, Mr. Fonberg, is that what we're defining as sunk costs, or what DND is defining as sunk costs?
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of National Defence
Defining as operating costs—yes, sir.