Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 14th, 2013

[Jim Ralston]

Yes. I'd like to add one point that maybe hasn't come out clearly so far.

There always have been two sets of accounting standards used in Canada, one for the public sector and one for the corporate sector or the private sector. In the past, it was public sector accounting standards and Canadian GAAP. Public sector accounting standards haven't changed, but Canadian GAAP has disappeared and has been replaced by IFRS. It is those entities that were formerly using “the blue book”, as we refer to it, that have had to transition to a new set of standards. To the extent that they are part of the government accounting entity, their transition activities get reflected in our consolidated financial statements.

In terms of whether public sector accounting standards would ultimately converge to the IFRS, I think that's unlikely to happen, and I've already cited the example of the international public sector accounting standards. The public sector international equivalent of IFRS does exist now, and they are keeping those two sets of standards separate.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Mr. Hayes' time has expired.

Thank you. That was interesting.

Over now to Mr. Byrne who has the floor.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ralston, in a previous discussion, a positive discussion, that you and I had regarding the function of the internal audit within the Government of Canada, I posed questions regarding impacts from program review—I'm not actually sure what the term is, but the downsizing of government that has occurred in the last 18 months—and the effect on the internal audit function, from a cross-departmental point of view, within the Government of Canada.

As Comptroller General of Canada, you are responsible for the coordination of internal audit. Is that fair to say?

[Jim Ralston]

I'm responsible for establishing the policies that our internal auditors follow across the government.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

When we had a discussion about this before, you said you were not in a position to provide any details to this parliamentary committee about impacts to the internal audit function across the government until the implementation of Budget 2012.

We're now in 2013, obviously. Would you now be able to supply to this parliamentary committee details about the cross-government impact on the internal audit function as a result of Budget 2012?

[Jim Ralston]

I certainly don't have that detail at my fingertips today.

I could undertake to see whether I could do a follow-up on that.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

I'd appreciate that very much.

Would we be able to establish a timeframe for the delivery of that product? Would 10 working days be okay?

[Jim Ralston]

Well....

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Sorry, Mr. Ralston, the timing of the supply of documents to a parliamentary committee has been an issue before.

[Jim Ralston]

I'll do my best.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Do you think 10 days...? Would you be able to report to us if it can't be done in 10 days?

[Jim Ralston]

Yes. If we can't do it in 10 days, we'll give you a revised estimate of when we can.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Would you be able to commit to this committee that you will not take any longer than a month?

[Jim Ralston]

I think that's a safe commitment, yes.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thanks. We appreciate that very much. It is a useful piece of information, because, of course, as you are well aware, some departments have actually delegated the internal audit function back to Treasury Board—the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, for example, and others—so if you will provide as detailed a piece of evidence as possible, that may be very helpful to us.

Mr. Nevison, you've been dragged to places by members of the government where a general director should probably not necessarily go at a parliamentary committee, in terms of talking about things that may go into the political realm. But since you were asked some questions about whether or not tax cuts lead to head office relocations back to Canada, and you did supply an answer to this committee, what is your opinion about the move of Electro-Motive out of London? Why did that occur?

[Douglas Nevison]

Firms will make individual decisions based on a number of factors, of which I believe taxes would be one.

In answer to the previous question, I was talking in generalities, as I mentioned, as OECD studies have shown. I wasn't dealing with a specific case.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

You are absolutely correct on that.

Have you seen an influx of manufacturing growth in Canada as a result of tax reform?

[Douglas Nevison]

As I mentioned, business investment has bounced back quite strongly in the last little while.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Has this happened in the manufacturing sector, though?

[Douglas Nevison]

The manufacturing sector, as you know, has been on a secular decline for a while, and it's not unique to Canada. A number of industrialized countries have seen their share of output and employment in the manufacturing sector decline quite significantly over the last decade or so, but as mentioned, business investment in certain machinery and equipment has been one of the better points in terms of the components of domestic demand recently.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thanks for your answer on that one.

Mr. Chair, do I have a few more seconds?

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

You have five.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Mr. Ralston, is there anything you'd like to add in terms of the main estimates documents?

We're always talking about reform, getting that clear information. Is there anything about the public accounts you'd like to share with this committee—for example, the publication of the public accounts that you're looking at in terms of reforms, broadening the scope, allowing greater information to flow to parliamentarians and to others?

[Jim Ralston]

As you know, when you look at the three volumes of the public accounts, there's a lot of detail in there, and some of it, I guess.... It has arisen in times past. I think it is worthwhile to look at these disclosures again and to ask whether they are still relevant in today's world. They were obviously considered relevant in an earlier time.

I also think we could ask ourselves whether there's another reporting vehicle. I mean, we now have the Internet and things like that, departmental websites, whatever. I think it's fair to say that we might look at whether all of the information is necessary or whether there's a better vehicle or something of that nature. It would help ease the reporting burden to get rid of unnecessary work for....

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thanks, Mr. Ralston.