Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 24th, 2014

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

I call this 15th meeting of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts to order.

Colleagues, we have with us today the Auditor General of Canada, Mr. Michael Ferguson. Welcome, sir. It's always a pleasure to have you at our committee.

The orders of the day are to study chapter 2, “Access to Online Services”, of the fall 2013 report of the Auditor General of Canada.

Joining us today are two new colleagues, Mr. Cannan and Ms. Jones. We welcome both of them and hope they enjoy their time with us.

Without further ado, I will call on the Auditor General to give his opening remarks. Following that, we will hear from representatives of the Treasury Board Secretariat, Department of Employment and Social Development, Canada Revenue Agency, Department of Veterans Affairs, and Department of Industry. Apparently everybody has a short opening comment to make. I will let each of those departments introduce their delegation when their turn comes. After the Auditor General, Treasury Board will be up next.

Mr. Ferguson, you have the floor, sir.

[Michael Ferguson, Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada]

Mr. Chair, thank you for this opportunity to appear before the committee to discuss chapter 2, “Access to Online Services”, of our 2013 fall report.

With me is Dale MacMillan, principal for this audit.

More and more, Canadians use the Internet to conduct business, and they want their government to provide them with information and services online. Indeed, in 2005, Canada was a world leader in online government services for its citizens, but since then, there has been a decline.

We found that, since 2005, the government has not significantly expanded its online services. Users must often resort to using regular mail, phoning or visiting a service centre in person to finish a transaction. In 2012, a survey conducted by a third party showed that fewer than 56% of people who performed online transactions with the Canadian government were satisfied with the services they received.

There is no government-wide strategy to guide online service delivery, and there are few incentives for departments to work together on activities common across government. Canadians must interact with each department and agency separately if they want to access government programs such as employment insurance, veterans' benefits or tax services. Furthermore, when a person moves, they have to notify each department they deal with of their new address.

We noted some cases where departments have done a good job of working together to share information and provide better services. For example, at the time of our audit, the Canada Revenue Agency and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada had worked with eight provinces to simplify the newborn registration service. We also noted that websites follow government standards for accessibility and consistency to make it easier for Canadians to use.

But in order for departments to work together and provide a client-focused online service, two things need to happen. First, there should be a government-wide strategy for online service delivery that departments follow as they develop their own cost-effective online service strategies. Second, a common methodology to identify and report on the cost of department delivery channels should be developed. With this information, costs can be better compared and opportunities for savings can be quantified.

The government has recognized that it is most cost-effective to deliver services to Canadians online. The government's own estimates show that online transactions are significantly less expensive than other options for service delivery. Departments need to develop service delivery strategies that can help them better deliver cost-effective, client-focused solutions.

Finally, the government needs to make it easier for Canadians to access online services securely. There has been significant improvement over the past several years because the government has found less expensive authentication options. However, Canadians have repeatedly said they want services to be accessible and convenient. Currently they need to re-enroll with each department, remember multiple passwords, or use different authentication options depending on who they deal with. As well, enrolling for online services could require a single online transaction or take up to 21 days; there are different rules for each department. There should be a simple enrolment process for individuals and businesses to perform transactions online securely and cost-effectively.

Mr. Chair, the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat and the four departments we examined in our audit have agreed with our findings and recommendations. They have made commitments in their responses, some of which they expect to address by 2015-16. We were pleased to note that the secretariat has agreed to take the lead in some of the key areas, including the development of a government-wide strategy by March 2015.

Mr. Chair, this concludes my opening remarks. We would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Very good, sir. Thank you.

Now we'll move to the Treasury Board Secretariat.

Madam Charette, you have the floor.

[Corinne Charette, Chief Information Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Mr. Chair, I am pleased to be here to speak to the Auditor General's recommendations regarding the Treasury Board Secretariat's role in ensuring that Canadians can electronically access government programs and services.

With me today is Sharon Squire from the CIOB, who will help in addressing questions.

As I'm sure you are aware, the service landscape is very complex and requires an integrated approach among Government of Canada departments and agencies.

TBS is committed to doing our part in facilitating access to online services that respect citizens' privacy, and in improving the overall service experience for citizens and businesses, while ensuring the cost-effectiveness of service delivery.

In the area of service, TBS's key role is to provide strategic leadership and policy direction for government-wide service design and delivery, and much work has already been undertaken in this regard.

More than two years ago, we reviewed trends and best practices from other jurisdictions, and we then turned our attention to developing policy direction and guidance in key areas to support what we've seen as best practices. More recently, TBS has been working closely with its federal partners to align efforts to improve service design and delivery.

For example, TBS co-chairs with Service Canada a deputy minister committee on service and federating identity. This committee has established a strategic vision to advance digital self-service delivery and has identified a set of priorities to reach this vision, including priorities for federating identity and a new policy on service and related supporting instruments to guide this.

Also, over the past year the Treasury Board Secretariat has led the web renewal initiative, focusing on one Government of Canada user-centric website known as Canada.ca., which is designed to make Government of Canada online information and services easier to search, access, and use. It has a new look and feel optimized for mobile devices and is organized by themes and by most frequently used information and tasks sought by our users.

Moreover, TBS has made strong progress in providing departments and agencies with leadership and policy guidance relating to service standards and identity management as well as credential assurance, which play a critical role in enabling secure online delivery of government services.

As of December 2012, the government renewed secure online service credentials. We are pleased to say that 26 departments are using the new services now, which has allowed us to reduce our operating costs substantially in this area, and over five years will allow us to drop costs from $51 million at the onset to under $13 million at the end. By leveraging online credentials from Canadian financial institutions, the Government of Canada has enhanced its ability to provide secure log-in services and to benefit from the constantly evolving technologies that are made available through our partners.

The Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat agrees with the audit’s recommendations, and further work is under way to address the issues and recommendations identified in the report.

The Treasury Board Secretariat is currently developing a new policy on service that will provide a strategic and coherent approach to the design and delivery of Government of Canada services. We expect to publish this policy by the spring of 2014. TBS will also develop additional guidance in 2014 to assist departments with implementation.

Building on TBS policy work, the secretariat, in collaboration with Service Canada and other service delivery partners, will develop a government-wide service strategy to improve services to individuals and businesses online and to facilitate this in a cost-effective way with the cost-effective delivery of services. The strategy will be done by March 2015.

The Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat will also continue to work with government departments to provide a simple enrolment process both for individuals and for businesses to transact online securely and cost-effectively with the government. We will continue to collaborate with our provincial and territorial colleagues to enable a simple and secure way to access Government of Canada services across Canada and achieve a “tell us once” approach, where personal information can be reused in confidential and secure ways, furthering proofs of concept right now with our federal partners.

Last but not least, the Government of Canada will continue to explore opportunities for enhanced service delivery through greater collaboration with the private sector and other levels of government to better leverage recent advances in technology.

As you can see, much work has already been done, and we will continue to work with our service delivery partners to further improve online services for Canadians and businesses.

Thank you for your time Mr. Chair. I would be pleased to answer any questions from the committee.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Very good. Merci.

Colleagues, I should state so that it's on the record that there was agreement by the three parties that the 15-minute business meeting we were going to have at the end of this meeting will be held at the end of the next public hearing so that we had the time to move to this room where the cameras are working. That was agreed to. I'm looking around the room and I'm still seeing agreement, so that is the plan. Thank you very much.

Now we go to the Department of Employment and Social Development.

You have the floor, Madame Giliberti.

[Carolina Giliberti, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Services Management, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Mr. Chair, I am pleased to be here to speak to the Auditor General’s recommendations regarding Employment and Skills Development Canada's role in ensuring that Canadians can electronically access government programs and services. I realize we have a short amount of time to respond to the recommendations, which ESDC supports, so I will keep my comments brief.

In 2005, Service Canada was created to improve delivery of services for Canadians, which has included giving Canadians greater choice in accessing services. We now offer a range of services via our Internet site, which had over 81 million visits last year. Through 1-800 O-Canada and specialized call centres, we handled 53 million calls, and our nearly 600 in-person locations saw 8.6 million visits. We have improved delivery of ESDC programs.

In addition, we provide Canadians with help and information on such life events as finding a job, pursuing an education, having foreign credentials recognized, raising a family, retiring, living with a disability, starting a business and much more.

We've also leveraged our capabilities to provide information and deliver services on behalf of approximately 30 federal partners, as well as the provinces, including CRA, the Department of Finance, CIC, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, DND, Environment Canada, DFATD, PWGSC, Transport Canada, Health Canada, and PHAC.

Service Canada also administers the common experience payment on behalf of the office of the Indian Residential Schools Resolutions Canada. Recently, we have added the passport delivery network, and Veterans Affairs programming. The Auditor General's report noted that ESDC, via Service Canada, has made incremental improvements to online services over the last six years, including My Service Canada Account, a secure online portal for Canadians to get personal information and services pertaining to employment insurance, the Canada pension plan and old age security.

Some of the improvements made to help expand online services are as follows.

We added a convenient way to sign in to My Service Canada Account, or MSCA, using banking credentials, and we implemented a cyber-authentication renewal project that supports reliable and secure online access to ESDC programs.

We added the ability to view and print T4 forms, thus reducing mailing costs. We also added e-Forms to our secure e-Account to allow "Out of Country" and "Training" forms to be completed online for EI, with more features to come in the year ahead.

We introduced Phase 1 of auto-enrolment for old age security.

And finally, we redesigned the Service Canada website earlier this year to improve navigation, as well as introduce a new and improved search engine on the Government of Canada and Service Canada websites.

The service environment isn't static; rather it is rapidly and constantly evolving. Canadians expect responsive service that takes advantage of modern-day smart technology. This means we are looking at a future in which more e-services and self-service options will be available to Canadians.

The department's service delivery vision will cause a shift in how services are delivered in the next five to 10 years. Although in person will always be there, the bulk of services will be delivered online. The department is working on a number of initiatives so clients will be able to carry out transactions as easily as they do business with private sector institutions, to move towards more automated and paperless processes for benefits to enhance efficiency and to further improve program integrity. For example, we will be providing new electronic self-service tools and improving existing ones and will be auto-enrolling clients, where possible, into statutory benefit programs.

This work is in line with the Auditor General's report and the recommendation that ESDC develop an integrated strategy and plan for the online delivery of services that are cost-effective and client focused. The department has developed a multi-year strategic plan to track and report progress on the initiatives being undertaken.

On the subject of developing a government-wide service delivery strategy to improve services to individuals and businesses, ESDC is committed to working closely with Treasury Board Secretariat and other departments and will establish with TBS a joint working group to ensure strong coordination of efforts as work advances on options for a government-wide strategy.

With respect to the recommendation that ESDC and the other departments that were part of the audit develop and use a standard methodology for identifying and reporting on costs of delivery channels, the department feels it can contribute significantly in this area. It has been doing work to enhance the ability to cost service delivery across multiple channels and contributed directly to work done in 2012 that compiled service delivery costs from 11 departments. Since then, ESDC has further advanced its approach to costing service delivery and is prepared to work with other departments and TBS to develop a standard costing methodology.

Mr. Chair, ESDC, through Service Canada, continues to work with its partners in other departments and agencies to address the Auditor General's recommendations and improve the quality of online services available to Canadians. We are striving to ensure these services are secure, available and relevant to users.

The department has developed an action plan to address the recommendations as it pursues its vision of delivering services that are modern and efficient while ensuring the best value for taxpayers.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Thank you kindly.

Madame Giliberti, this is a minor point, but I notice a discrepancy. On our agenda, we have called it the Department of Employment and Social Development and yet your document refers to “Employment and Skills Development”. I assume you probably know where you work better than we do, so it's probably “Skills Development”. Is that correct?

[Carolina Giliberti]

Yes.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

All right. We will make that adjustment going forward. I apologize to your department for wrongly naming it.

Thank you for your presentation.

We'll now move along to Canada Revenue Agency. Mr. Bennett, you have the floor, sir.

[Dave Bennett, Assistant Commissioner, Assessment and Benefit Services Branch, Canada Revenue Agency]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, vice-chairs and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to discuss the findings of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditor General of Canada, specifically as they relate to the delivery of online services by the Canada Revenue Agency.

The Canadian tax system is based on self-assessment and voluntary compliance. Canadians are responsible for determining their tax liability, filing their tax returns, and paying the taxes they owe on time and voluntarily. We believe they will be more likely to comply with their tax obligations if we make it as easy as possible for them to do so. One of the best ways we know of to facilitate voluntary compliance is by continuing to expand and enhance our extensive suite of online services.

The CRA's secure online portals, My Account for individuals, My Business Account, and Represent a Client, allow Canadians to manage their affairs on a self-serve basis. There has been a substantial increase in the number of enrolments in recent years, a positive sign that these services are meeting the needs and expectations of the people and businesses we serve.

As the Auditor General observed, the CRA made over 40 improvements to its online services between 2009 and 2012, with an investment of just over $6.4 million. One of our latest initiatives is Submit Documents, a secure method for taxpayers and their representatives to send supporting documents and receipts to the CRA.

As part of our service strategy, we have made a concerted effort to promote online filing of tax returns. During the 2013 tax-filing season, a record 76% of individual tax returns, 64% of the GST/HST returns, and 69.9%, so almost 70%, of corporate tax returns were filed electronically. Each of these figures represents a significant increase in volume over the prior years.

The Auditor General recommended that Employment and Skills Development Canada—I see that I have the same—

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

That's very good, very quick, and very nimble.

[Dave Bennett]

—the Canada Revenue Agency, Veterans Affairs Canada, and Industry Canada develop and use a standard methodology to report on the costs of their delivery channels and taking into consideration the Treasury Board Secretariat’s guidance on costing and sharing best practices. The Canada Revenue Agency agrees with this recommendation. We will work with our colleague departments to develop a standard methodology for costing service delivery channels by the end of fiscal 2014-15 and apply it to all program lines by end of fiscal 2015-16. An action plan with established timelines is already under way.

We expect to have a first draft of the new standard methodology for costing service by December 2014. The methodology and an agency implementation plan will be fully developed by March 2015 and the new standards applied to the programs in March 2016.

The Canada Revenue Agency is committed to delivering services to Canadians in a way that is modern, efficient, and sustainable, and that responds to evolving needs and expectations. Although online service is the preferred option, we will continue to support those Canadians who choose to file their tax and benefit returns on paper and who prefer to make their payments by cheque.

We thank the Auditor General for his work and look forward to collaborating with the Treasury Board Secretariat and other departments to facilitate the cost-effective delivery of services across the federal government.

I'd be pleased to answer any questions about our services.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Thank you, Mr. Bennett.

We'll go to the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Madame Bastien, you have the floor.

[Charlotte Bastien, Director General, Field Operations, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Good afternoon and thank you.

My name is Charlotte Bastien. I am the director general of field operations. I'm here with my colleague, Rick Christopher, who is the director of service delivery. We're pleased to have the opportunity this afternoon to speak to the findings of chapter 2 of the report of the Auditor General of Canada as they relate to Veterans Affairs Canada.

I’d like to begin by sharing some information about who we serve at Veterans Affairs Canada and how we go about it.

As you know from the report, we spend about $3.2 billion annually in financial assistance services and disability and health care benefits, providing services to veterans and their families. The department is also responsible for remembrance activities in Canada and abroad.

Our department serves four main groups. From largest to smallest, they are Canadian Armed Forces veterans, representing 38%, survivors, representing 35%, war service veterans, at 22%, and RCMP, representing 5%.

Those 207,900 or so individuals range in age from 19 to 100 and, as one would expect, have varying needs with regard to how they receive services from the department.

To meet those needs, we have a service delivery network that offers services in person, by mail, by telephone, and of course, online. My branch employs just under 1,700 people in more than 50 locations across the country. In-person services are delivered by a national network of interdisciplinary service teams at 26 area offices across the country. These teams include case managers and medical professionals.

Through a partnership with the Department of National Defence, we also have about 100 staff members at 24 integrated personnel support centres and seven support satellite offices. These centres are located on or near Canadian Armed Forces bases and wings.

In addition to those 50 service locations, there is a network of 17 specialized clinics that treat operational stress injuries across Canada. Ten were established and are funded by VAC. The other seven clinics are operated by the Department of National Defence. All are accessible to veterans.

We also have a partnership with Service Canada that provides approximately 600 points of service where veterans and their families can receive assistance. We also offer telephone services through our national veterans contact network.

That brings me to online service offerings at Veterans Affairs.

Available since 2005, My VAC Account is the tool we use to provide online services to veterans and their families. They can conduct business with us online anytime, anywhere. My VAC Account currently has more than 9,000 registered users.

Veterans can complete application forms for disability benefits, the veterans independence program, career transition services and other benefits online. As of August 2013, veterans can upload information to support their online disability benefit applications, saving them time and mailing costs. They can also update personal information, including their direct deposit information, address and telephone numbers. Veterans and their families can also communicate with the department by email via secure message.

An important enhancement, which was made in October, allows veterans to register for My VAC Account, even if they have not done business with us in the past. This allows them to apply for benefits for the first time through My VAC Account or send us a secure message if they have a question before they apply.

I would now like to tell you about planned improvements made possible by the investment of just over $2 million in the 2014 budget.

The funding will allow us to continue to build My VAC Account’s existing functionality to create an industry-leading e-services portal for veterans.

A more comprehensive and user friendly online service offering will allow veterans to: access personalized information about benefits and services; apply online for a full range of benefits; view the status of their application at any time; communicate securely and more conveniently with the department online; more actively manage their account information and documents; and access additional services not currently available online.

I would like to mention some of the other online tools available from Veterans Affairs Canada.

Educators can order commemorative learning materials online, allowing us to get materials into the hands of teachers quickly, in a manner that is convenient to them and less expensive for the department. As well, educators can access a number of online learning resources, such as Heroes Remember, a feature providing access to video interviews with veterans.

Our commemoration program successfully uses social media tools such as Facebook and YouTube. The department often uses Twitter to share information on remembrance activities as well as announcements regarding changes or improvements to our services and benefits. We also offer such online tools as the benefits browser and My VAC Book, which help veterans identify the programs and services that might be available to them based on their service information and circumstances.

In recent years, we have made significant investments in improving our online service offerings. As we continue to improve, the benefits to veterans and the department will be significant.

As you will see in our action plan, we will collaborate with other departments and stay abreast of broader government initiatives moving forward.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Thank you.

Before I go to Monsieur Dagenais, Madame Giliberti, only because I had taken the hit for our administration and said that we got it wrong, I'm actually being shown your website, which refers to Employment and Social Development Canada. Not that it's a big deal, but one of us should understand where you work.

[Carolina Giliberti]

It's “Social”.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

I took the hit for my staff, believing we'd made a mistake, but I will give you a chance to suggest that maybe we didn't get it wrong and that it is actually “Social Development” and not “Skills”. Is that correct?

[Carolina Giliberti]

I believe it's “Social”. I always refer to it as ESDC and then Service Canada, so I would say it's “Skills”. I just checked my notes, and I have both as well.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Really?

[Carolina Giliberti]

Yes. In my speech, I had it as Employment and Skills Development. I apologize.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

That's fine. It's not a big deal. I would say we made a mistake, but it turns out we may not have.

[Carolina Giliberti]

It's “Social”.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

I'll leave it to the government to decide on one name and stay with it.

We're moving along now to Industry Canada and Monsieur Dagenais.

You have the floor, sir.

[Éric Dagenais, Director General, Small Business Branch, Department of Industry]

Good afternoon. My name is Éric Dagenais, and I am the director general of Industry Canada's Small Business Branch.

Mr. Chair and committee members, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to provide you with an overview of Industry Canada's response to chapter 2 of the Auditor General's report.

Industry Canada's relationship with Canadian businesses is central to its mission of fostering a growing competitive knowledge-based economy. Changes in technology in the business environment are altering the context in which programs operate. We agree that government must take advantage of opportunities to adopt processes and delivery methods that will allow them to serve businesses more efficiently and effectively. Government interacts with businesses in every sector of the economy, in every region of the country, and at every business phase from start-up to closure. At the federal level alone, there are over 290 programs and services to businesses delivered by more than 30 organizations. Industry Canada acknowledges that there is an opportunity to improve the quality of service provided to businesses by reducing the complexity involved in accessing government information, programs, and services through an integrated service strategy.

Over the past three years, we have improved the front face of our online presence, although we acknowledge that more can be done, as highlighted by the Auditor General in his recommendations.

The Auditor General focused on two specific programs within Industry Canada that provide online services to small and medium enterprises, namely, the Canada business network and corporations Canada. I would like to speak to you briefly about these programs, since they are very good examples of how our online services for businesses have evolved over the past several years.

The Canada business network is a decentralized, horizontal program through which Industry Canada offers online services at canadabusiness.ca. And the regional development agencies provide telephone and in-person services. The program is delivered in collaboration with the provinces, territories and other non-governmental service delivery organizations.

The program is intended to help entrepreneurs and small business owners save time and make informed business decisions by improving access to government information and services.

Canadabusiness.ca is known for its collaborative and innovative online service delivery solutions. In 2012-13 the site facilitated access to the Government of Canada's programs and services for 2.2 million clients and was recognized as a leading web service for Canadian small businesses. The website won a GTEC award at the Government Technology Exhibition and Conference in 2010. The website was also recognized by Rogers' Connected magazine as the best government site for entrepreneurs and small businesses in 2013. In recent years the site has expanded its use of social media tools to inform and engage Canadian businesses on behalf of many departments and agencies.

In an effort to leverage services within the Industry Canada portfolio, Canada Business Ontario has taken on the role of the tier one national call centre to support the new National Research Council concierge service. This customized service, together with the dedicated online service, offers personalized assistance in navigating the network of business innovation assistance and programs available, allowing businesses to select the right options to address their individual needs.

The audit also looked at the online presence of Corporations Canada, the organization within Industry Canada that is the federal corporate law regulator. Corporations Canada administers the federal statutes that enable a business to incorporate, one of the key steps that may be pursued when starting a business.

Industry Canada was pleased that the Auditor General noted that corporations Canada provides more direct services to business and has offered federal incorporation services online since 1999. This speaks to the improvements that we have made in offering better services online to businesses.

Today, 98% of all business incorporations federally are filed online. Corporations Canada also has an arrangement with the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, to provide a corporation with a CRA business number at the same time that they incorporate. This is one less step that a business has to do separately.

Other online self-service features enable us to offer reduced fees and better turnaround time for transactions. They allow corporations to maintain up-to-date records and to file an annual return, a service that 94% of federal corporations take advantage of. An online filing is only $20 and the service standard is 24 hours or less, whereas a paper filing is $40 with a service standard of 5 days.

Most businesses in Canada are small businesses, which are reflected in the profile of corporation Canada's clients. Service enhancements to online services are determined according to feedback from clients about what is important to them and a cost-benefit analysis based on the volumes received for particular types of transactions. An effort is currently under way to ensure that documents on the Web are written in plain language and that processes are clearly explained so that clients can do many transactions without professional assistance if they want to. Feedback on this has been very positive to date.

Coming back to the Auditor General's findings for Industry Canada, I would like to reiterate that Industry Canada agrees with the recommendations.

In response to the first recommendation and in the context of the department's efforts for improving services to business, Industry Canada is developing an integrated strategy and plan for delivery of services to business focusing on the department and the portfolio. Industry Canada is also working very closely with federal partners to help improve services across government programs.

In response to the second recommendation regarding the identification and reporting on the costs of service delivery channels to support decision-making, we will be providing guidance to our service delivery business units to ensure a standard approach for attributing costs.

In closing, Industry Canada is committed to improving its delivery of online services to business and will work with its partners to address the recommendations of the Auditor General.

Thank you, committee members and Mr. Chair. I would be glad to answer your questions.

[The Chair, NDP, David Christopherson]

Thank you kindly.

Colleagues, we're ready to begin the rotation. We have done the calculations. We should be able to get through all the spots, but it will require me to be a little more exact on the five minutes than I am normally. Normally I allow some latitude, but we'll never get through if I do, so I will be firm on the five minutes as it applies to everyone.

In the rotation already agreed to, Mr. Albas, you have the floor, sir.