Evidence of meeting #105 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phoenix.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
[Inaudible—Editor] Mr. Ferguson's comment about everything being designed for people not to be accountable?
5:25 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I do believe that is a fundamental governance issue, and when we look at this in retrospect, as the report does, we need to understand that this governance is critical for these aspects. There have been huge strides in governance, but they are only as good as the values, the intention, the commitment to implement and live with those values. Whether it is designed or works out that way, any governance structure has to have accountability and clear lines of communication at the appropriate level fundamentally built in to that.
I went through a list of measures that we have undertaken to do that, but I have also indicated to you that we intend also to pursue the very significant shifts required to make sure that we live those values.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you.
We've heard a lot about accountability. I think that it goes back to what Mr. McCauley and Mr. Christopherson and we all recognize. Sometimes it's hard to get some of the answers, when you have four deputy ministers through the tenure. The current one was there for the second launch, but wasn't the one making the decisions. I find it hard to believe that there isn't a sign-off from other departments on other things. There are always sign-offs it seems, but that it can be designed with no sign-off is frustrating.
Three of these deputies are gone. Some of them are not even in the public service anymore. Minister Foote is long gone back to Newfoundland and we still have problems. I still have constituents not being paid properly. I still have town hall meetings that are being taken up with Phoenix issues. The reason is that people are missing house payments and missing car payments because they aren't getting paid. All of us, on all sides, need the department and need the government to.... I'm glad to hear about some of the measures that you have put in place. I think that's positive. I hope these are lessons that we've learned. We know what happened. We're still trying to find out why some of it happened.
I thank you for being here today.
We are now adjourned.