Evidence of meeting #129 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I appreciate that. That's good news.
As it deals with security and is mandatory in your organization, can you assure us that nowhere else is mandatory being treated so haphazardly and as so unimportant?
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We will have that conversation to add suspenders to the belt, Chair, but I believe that as a result of the approach we have taken to our management of security in the last couple of years, we can give you that assurance. In one of our regular and frequent meetings, we will have that discussion. If I'm wrong, we will readily correct it.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.
Mr. Arseneault, you have five minutes.
10:05 a.m.
René Arseneault Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Shugart, I'll continue along the same lines as my colleagues Ms. Yip and Mr. Christopherson.
Perhaps as a result of my professional background, since I was a trial lawyer for 23 years before being elected, I have one burning question.
Are we clearly informing the employees—our fellow Canadians—sent to our diplomatic missions abroad, in addition to locally engaged staff or subcontractors, that they'll be working at missions where certain security standards aren't up to date and where security upgrades are behind schedule?
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would ask Ms. Jeffrey to elaborate. I gather that you're talking about transparency. Is—
10:05 a.m.
Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
I apologize for interrupting, but I don't have much time.
If I'm hired to work at one of our missions abroad, am I told whether the facility where I'm being sent to work meets the minimum security standards? Am I told whether certain security work is behind schedule?
Even though the employees take the brief course for five days or I'm not sure how long to prepare for emergencies, are they informed of these weaknesses? That's what I want to know, and a simple “yes” or “no” will do.
February 26th, 2019 / 10:05 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Emergency Management and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
On arrival at mission, all of our staff are fully briefed on the situation and the measures in place. That includes not just the physical security measures that they're aware of—gates and access—but also the operational security, which can supplement and in some cases compensate for physical security that needs to be enhanced. That includes movement protocols, go/no-go areas in their mission locale, the type of escorts, the local guard service required for moving outside the mission environment, radio protocols, communications check-ins, all of these types of things.
10:05 a.m.
Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
Are you telling me that the weaknesses identified by the Office of the Auditor General are explained to them, perhaps not in detail, but that at least they're informed from the start that they'll be working at a mission abroad where not all the security measures have been fully developed? Are they informed?
10:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Emergency Management and Security, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes, they're advised of the operational and physical security measures in place around their mission and the need to respect them to ensure the safety of not just—
10:10 a.m.
Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
That's not what I asked you.
Are they informed of the weaknesses in the security measures and infrastructure?
10:10 a.m.
Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would say that our colleagues are generally well informed of the situation. For example, when we're strengthening certain measures, we inform them that certain projects are under way, but that the work isn't finished. This type of information is available to them. However, you're asking a very specific question and we'll look into it because—
10:10 a.m.
Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
I must interrupt you, Mr. Shugart, because I don't have much time left. I want to thank you, and I invite you to send your response to the committee through the clerk.
I have a second question. How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?
10:10 a.m.
Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
Mr. Shugart, thank you for agreeing to answer the question, which was becoming obvious.
There's a lack of planning when we open a new mission abroad. That's it. In short, that's what I understood. We don't open a new mission abroad every week. However, I read in the Auditor General's report that the lack of planning for these new missions isn't something new, no matter the government of the day. This has been going on for at least 10 years, or since 2011.
Can you provide an example of a new mission planned in accordance with the best practices? Are you about to open a new mission somewhere? If so, has the establishment of the mission been properly planned?
10:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We've recently opened new missions. In Brussels, for example, the process took only a year and a half and was a great success. In New York, our new mission opened on time and on budget. We've been very successful recently in this area.
10:10 a.m.
Madawaska—Restigouche, Lib.
Okay.
In terms of security, Belgium and the United States aren't considered very dangerous countries. Do any countries pose more risks and require more effort to ensure mission security?
10:10 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It's difficult to answer this question because we're completing the planned missions and projects. However, we've been very successful in some of the more dangerous countries, including Afghanistan. We have many similar recent examples.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Without trying to interpret all of what the Auditor General said, I think that some of those places listed on the front page here—Burkina Faso, Afghanistan, Egypt—are all recognized as needing security. However, sometimes, as the Americans found out in Benghazi and in other countries, an attack can happen anywhere.
I have one more questioner, Mr. Zimmer.
I'll just tell the committee that we have a very short issue with our public accounts budget for travel through the summer, our conference with the provinces, that we want to deal with so that we can get the budget and go to the Liaison Committee.
Mr. Zimmer.
10:10 a.m.
Bob Zimmer Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC
As the chair of our ethics committee, one thing we've studied exhaustively is how groups can organize quickly around the world now on platforms like Facebook, etc.
I respect you, sir, as a servant of the public, but I'll read paragraph 4.18. This is what all of this comes down to:
This finding matters because physical security vulnerabilities must be resolved in a timely manner for the effective protection of staff and assets at missions abroad.
You sit here and survive this committee meeting and you go away to your normal life. You don't come back here maybe for another four years—I don't know—but we have a fence that hasn't been fixed for eight years. Who do you answer to?
I've been in bosses' offices before, answering for something that I haven't done properly. It's been rare, but it has happened.
What's your commitment to seeing this fixed? Are you going to be here maybe next year, and maybe the next year again, and it's not fixed for the next 20 years?
At what point do you actually get it done and answer what this audit report is challenging you to do? What's your response to, “Okay, I've just been taken to the cleaners here; I'm going to make sure this problem is resolved”?
When is that going to happen?
10:15 a.m.
Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I think the member's question is a more general one. If it's about the specific fence, I'll ask Dan to handle that.
I guess I would say that I don't regard coming to this committee and the time we spend—and I think the chair will back me up on this—as just surviving and then going back to my ordinary life. In fact, my ordinary life is about the implementation of the funding that we've received for these purposes, guided by the Auditor General's report and by our own internal audit. The Treasury Board holds us accountable for those funds.