You give the template.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was initiatives.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was initiatives.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:05 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat
One of our challenges is to move from an input or output indicator to something that gets to the outcomes we desire. I cited NEXUS as an example of where we want to go because it makes clear that if you use NEXUS you get through twice as quickly than if you stand in line. To me, that's an outcome that supports the goal of expediting travel. Our guidance is based on making clear to departments that they need to develop indicators for their initiatives and then provide that data to Public Safety so that Public Safety can report. It's not Treasury Board Secretariat that develops the indicators for the department.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
That's fair enough.
Help me understand.... Madam Cheng, I turn to you too.
I didn't write this; the Auditor General did. The Auditor General wrote in his opening remarks, “The Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat did not give departments and agencies specific guidance on costing and measuring”, which you just acknowledged you do, yet you're also telling me at the same time that it's.... I'm very confused.
The Auditor General has said that the guidance you're talking about matters, yet you didn't do it right.
Ms. Cheng, can you help?
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes
Answer very quickly because we're running out of time.
5:10 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
First, I'd like to confirm and support what Mr. Pagan said. It's not the Treasury Board's responsibility to come up with the performance indicators, it is up to the lead department and the partner departments and agencies to do that. However, they have a role to provide guidance. Very quickly, just as an example, if they get together and say this is the state of play and the partner departments provide some information, who is there to ask if it's enough or if it provides a really good picture? Does the lead department take the chart and say it's not meaningful enough and to go back, or do they just take it and then collate and publish it?
There is some clarity in the margin in saying how we can move forward. Who is really responsible for having that consolidated view? Arguably, the lead department and the partner departments have that responsibility jointly, but who does what? Perhaps some additional clarification from the centre might help. It is not Treasury Board Secretariat that needs to come back with all these performance measures, and they're not responsible for the horizontal reporting.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
February 8th, 2017 / 5:10 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes
Maybe that should be one of our recommendations.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes
Thank you very much to all for your participation in this 42nd meeting of our committee. We are going to suspend for two minutes so we can go in camera for committee business.
We will probably see you again very soon.
Thank you.
[Proceedings continue in camera.]