Evidence of meeting #82 for Public Accounts in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technology.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
Yes.
9:25 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
Right. We have focused on the 80% within two minutes. We are now going to provide more comprehensive reporting. In the departmental results report, we started to report on the more complete picture. Yes, there is that. If you get through, it's within two minutes, but we know that there are people who are not getting through. We want to report on that and we want to make progress on all of those fronts.
For example, that's one of the reasons why we experimented with increasing the wait time to see if we could change that, because it is a choice that has to be made in terms of how many people can come through and how quickly they can be served, until we get the new technology, which will allow us to provide wait times to people, and they can choose whether they'd like to wait.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
The underlying thing I've been hearing this morning is technology, technology, and technology. The CRA has been around for a very long time. You've had decades to improve the technology. I don't think resources were a constraint. Were they?
9:30 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
I'm sorry. You don't think the technology was a constraint...?
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON
Were the resources a constraint for you at any time in order to improve the technology and deliver better service to taxpayers?
9:30 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
In that regard, I think, we always do the best we can with the resources we have. We don't have infinite resources, so we always have to make choices about what we do.
I'm telling you now that we are going to be investing in this technology, but I don't want to give you the sense that it's just technology. That will be a big help to us, but we are taking steps before then. We need to look at our systems. We need to look at our training. All of those things will be ongoing pressures.
The other thing I haven't mentioned, which is interesting to note, is that service is a more comprehensive vehicle than just call centres, and we have to think about the information that we provide in general in the service area. How's our website? Can people go there and get the information they want, to the point where they don't need to call as often?
We're looking at all of the aspects of how we provide information to Canadians, but today we're talking about the call centres. Technology will be a big change for us, but we also, as I said, are looking at our training and our systems and making sure that we're giving our people all the tools they need.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much.
We'll now move to Mr. Deltell.
Mr. Deltell, you have seven minutes.
November 30th, 2017 / 9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen.
Mr. Hamilton, we understand that this is not an easy day for you. Thank you for your testimony.
It is not easy, and the next hour will not be easy either. Are you surprised by the Auditor General's findings?
9:30 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
I am not very surprised by the results.
We knew there were problems with access. We made the choice to have a wait time of less than two minutes, but that was necessary because clients were getting a busy signal. The result as to the veracity of the answers shows that there is certainly room for improvement, as well as the fact that our report is perhaps not as transparent as it should be.
There are things to be improved, but it is not a big surprise.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Hamilton, your service failed to deliver 84% of the time. It failed 84% of the time.
You say you are not surprised, but what did you do not to be surprised? How can it be that you are not surprised that your service did not work 84% of the time?
That is unacceptable, sir.
9:30 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
I will not comment on that 84%.
Overall, we have to improve the training for agents and make sure that the answers provided to taxpayers are accurate.
Also, we have to continually improve the agency's services.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Okay, we can all improve in life, we get that.
Yet with an 84% failure rate, you do not need to improve; you need to shake things up or else we have to start over from scratch. Come on, it is not a question of improving. You need a change in course and a kick in the backside to get things working properly.
Mr. Hamilton, if you wanted to hire someone and they got 16% on their test, would you hire them?
9:30 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
Perhaps I would provide better training.
9:30 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
We are not talking about a question in a survey, but something systematic within the agency. In my opinion, we need to improve the technology and training, find the source of the problem, and correct it.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Hamilton, do you realize that what you just said is an insult to the 84% of people who call and do not get the service to which they are entitled and which they pay for?
9:35 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
That is why we have an action plan to improve the situation.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Mr. Hamilton, what I find very disappointing is the way you are talking about this as though it were a question of making a few improvements. We are talking about an 84% failure rate. What is needed here is not an improvement: you need to completely review the structure and, above all, the culture.
How have you been able to keep your job with an 84% failure rate?
9:35 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
Once again, that 84% pertains to a question in a survey.
I said we have to improve the situation. Overall, we have to provide accurate information to Canadians. We will take measures to improve through technology and training, and find out what exactly the problem is. We will be able to receive calls, better understand the source of the problems, and correct them. That is my commitment in this regard.
That is my answer.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
That is your answer but it is unacceptable to Canadians.
What was done was more than a survey: it was demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that things are not working. You say that the technology has to be improved. That is not true. The role of technology is to support effectiveness; it is not the source of the problems. In the current culture, you are not worried about this. When you say that it is just a survey question and all that is needed is improvement, it is as though you are burying your head in the sand. I am sorry to have to be so harsh, Mr. Hamilton, but your answers are not acceptable.
9:35 a.m.
Commissioner of Revenue and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Revenue Agency
I have fully understood the questions and the problems and have committed to improving the situation through the action plan. It is clear that technology will improve our situation and will allow us to direct the questions to people who can answer fairly complex questions. Further, we now offer better training to these people and provide them with better tools.
I have taken the recommendations very seriously. We will make changes at the agency in order to offer better service to Canadians.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Mr. Hamilton.
We'll now move to Mr. Chen.
Mr. Chen, we're in the second round, as you know, and so it's a five-minute round.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Shaun Chen Liberal Scarborough North, ON
Thank you very much.
I want to thank the Auditor General, and I want to thank the witnesses from the CRA who are here before us today.
With all the changes that you are moving forward with at the CRA, have you set a new service standard? You mentioned before that your existing service standard is to have calls addressed within two minutes 80% of the time. Have you set a new service standard?