Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 13th, 2018

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Ms. Morgan, go ahead.

[Marta Morgan]

I would just add one thing, Mr. Chair, which is that this was an unprecedented situation for us, as well as for the service provider organizations. We were both taking management decisions—we on our side, and they on their side—in the middle of a confluence of events that brought a number of decisions together that we wouldn't normally be making all at the same time.

On our own side, I think that each made reasonable decisions at the time. What it's left us thinking about, in terms of the Auditor General's report, is that in these kinds of circumstances, we need to make sure we've looked at the lessons learned from this so that if we are faced with these kinds of urgent, pressing, and unexpected priorities colliding with our routine but significant renegotiation of all of our agreements, we can figure out how we can do it better.

I do think that it was very unusual, so the organizations had to assess the risk for themselves. Even though we were very reassuring, they found themselves in different situations. The vast majority of them found it acceptable, so I would surmise from this that our communications were sufficiently reassuring.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

When you say, “Just trust me. I'm from government, and the money will be coming”, there are some who tend to be a little hesitant on occasion.

Thank you for your answer.

We'll go to Mr. Généreux, please. Mr. Nuttall wanted to split the time.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Ms. Morgan, suppose I am a refugee and I arrived in the country two years ago. Am I eligible for any kind of language training?

[Marta Morgan]

Yes, you have.

Yes.

You are eligible.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Okay.

I am assuming that the language training is at a basic level in the vast majority of cases. Is language training also offered at an advanced level?

[David Manicom]

We provide language training at several levels of knowledge, including an advanced level. Naturally, we give priority to the needs for basic training noted in the communities and those classes can have higher numbers. I should also point out that, when newcomers obtain citizenship, they are no longer eligible for our programs.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Ms. Morgan, earlier you mentioned that 2,000 additional places were available in language classes. Did I understand that correctly?

[Marta Morgan]

Yes, Mr. Chair. That was language training.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Are those places for new arrivals of Syrian refugees or for family members who have not yet been trained? You told me that everyone had been trained up to now. Who have those 2,000 places been reserved for?

[Marta Morgan]

In the initiative to integrate the Syrians, we realized that we needed more places for training, given that the Syrian refugees had very limited knowledge of the official languages compared to other refugees and given their large numbers. So we added places to meet the total needs of all refugees and immigrants. It is important for all immigrants to have access to our services within a reasonable time. However, the refugees have priority because, in general, their language ability is at a lower level than the immigrants in the economic class, who have to pass language exams.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do you know the percentages of the training provided in the two languages, French and English?

I assume that 95% of the training is done in English, but do you have statistics on the language training currently being provided for the Syrians?

[David Manicom]

I do not have the exact figures at the moment, but we can send them to the committee. About 95% or 96% of the Syrians receive training in English, because the majority of refugees who speak French settle in Quebec.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Okay.

That is fine. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Let me ask one question as a follow-up to that.

If refugees are coming, for example, to Montreal, are they encouraged to take the language training in either French or English?

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

It's just in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

It's specifically in French. I guess a lot of this is administered by the province, so it's specific.

You said earlier that 40% of the refugees coming spoke English. If some of those refugees are going to a place like Montreal and say, “Wait a minute, my family is typically speaking English and can help me at home to speak English”, are they given that option?

[David Manicom]

That would be a question for the Government of Quebec. To my knowledge, the Government of Quebec also provides language training in English. Because of the agreement between the governments of Canada and Quebec on immigration, integration services are provided by the province.

Mr. Kiziltan, do you have any other comments to add?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Of the 1% who do speak French, it would be common sense to get them into a French community, where they can take advantage of the French they know. Is that indeed the case, or do we have some speaking French who are in Toronto or Vancouver?

[Marta Morgan]

When we decide to destine refugees, that's one of the things we take into account. Are the services available in the language they need? We would destine those who are French-speaking to areas with good French-speaking services and communities.

Similarly, we destine refugees, for example, to areas in which they may have family members. If we have government-assisted refugees who have family members in a particular urban area, we will destine them there. We try to take into account as much as possible those kinds of relationships, the services they might need, and the linguistic aspects.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Ms. Morgan.

Go ahead, Mr. Nuttall.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of the indicators you've been using to date, how far out do you measure the success of refugees coming to Canada? Can I assume that it will be similar with the Syrian refugee program as it was with other programs before? For how long does that take place?

[Ümit Kiziltan]

Telling the story of integration takes an intergenerational type of lens. Your question is valid. However, for instance, in terms of earnings, whether employment earnings or total income, we monitor and follow cohorts for decades. We have tax information for all cohorts since 1980, and we are able to see how earnings are changing over time, depending on financial crisis and whatnot. We monitor long-term and, as you also heard, multi-generationally. We look at the children of immigrants, whether they arrive as children or whether they are born here, and we monitor their earnings and their educational achievements and outcomes.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

When you're measuring this, do you go into any sort of gender-based analysis or any other subset?

[Ümit Kiziltan]

Absolutely. We look at gender-based analysis, source country, and visible minorities. We are able to monitor.... For instance, the Canadian census 2016 has been linked to our landing data, which means that for the first time in Canadian history we are able to analyze census information by immigration category. We can look at them as GARs, PSRs, and other types of categories. We do source country, visible minority, religion, gender, any way that we can break down and look at those outcomes, at how they vary and what types of challenges are encountered by different subgroups. Averages mask a lot of reality. We are able to do that analysis and feed that back into policy and programs for decisions.