Evidence of meeting #5 for Public Accounts in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Mr. Chair, I'd be no more than about a minute if I could ask one final question.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Ms. Hogan, thank you again for your time.
One question I had was about value-for-money audits. I understand that would sometimes be within the scope of your role.
When we go down that route of value-for-money audits, if we get to the point that the preliminary research suggests that these are actually good reports, are they ever made public? Do they become full audits that are put out, or if the initial work shows that a program is actually very good value for money, is that ever made public?
12:50 p.m.
Nominee for the Position of Auditor General of Canada, As an Individual
All our performance audits are value-for-money audits. The terminology evolves over the years, and I'm sure at some point it'll probably revert back to value-for-money auditing.
Whenever we begin to approach a subject matter, we spend the time needed in order to properly plan it and to ensure that we're going to end up with a report that will be useful to this committee, to parliamentarians and to the government. To my knowledge, I'm not aware of audits that we've started and not completed. I imagine that it is likely possible, but typically, we've done so much work through our process of planning and identifying audits that the ones we undertake are important because they touch areas that matter to Canadians. Whenever we start one, it is eventually made public to all of Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Kody Blois Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I just have one final follow-up question, Mr. Chair.
I understand, of course, you do the work around planning these audits, performance or otherwise. Is it ever made public that, “We actually didn't go into this audit because this program is functioning very well”?
Are those examples of what becomes public?
12:50 p.m.
Nominee for the Position of Auditor General of Canada, As an Individual
I'm not sure whether that's ever been the case. In my personal opinion, that might be something we might consider doing. As I mentioned earlier, I approach every audit very openly. I intend, if I'm appointed Auditor General, to tell this committee and government about the good, the bad and the ugly that I might see, so at times, yes, I would envision that our reports will say that something is running well.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just very quickly, you said repeatedly many of your potential employees, the 575 employees of the AG's office, have been working from home. I envision a new norm after COVID-19 where many businesses are not going to need as much office space or retail space. Lots of people are going to use this opportunity to cut overhead and have people working from home if they're comfortable and enjoy that. In any of your original thought process on how your office works, was that something you've considered, how many employees have enjoyed it or have learned that when working from home they can be just as productive or perhaps even more productive?
This might give you perhaps some more budget because you wouldn't have to pay for as much office space for those 575 employees in four different offices across the country.
12:50 p.m.
Nominee for the Position of Auditor General of Canada, As an Individual
I've been very fortunate to work with a very dedicated and engaged executive committee. Since we have all been practising physical distancing measures, we have been talking every single day about exactly those kinds of questions: What does returning to a new normal look like, what have we learned about ourselves as individuals and an organization, and how can we use that to return to an even better new normal going forward?
Everything you've talked about is something we're studying right now. As I would imagine, every federal organization and every company, profit-oriented or not, across the country is likely having the exact same conversation.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK
That's great to hear. Thank you very much. I think there's a lot of opportunity to really cut some overhead for, like you said, many organizations, so I appreciate those comments.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
We need to suspend for a second so that Ms. Hogan can leave the meeting, and then we'll get back into committee after she leaves.
Thank you very much for your time today. Thank you for your frankness and your honest answers. We wish you a great day.
12:55 p.m.
Nominee for the Position of Auditor General of Canada, As an Individual
Thank you very much.
Have a wonderful afternoon.
Have a great day, everyone.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Okay. I was hoping we could get in a couple of extra minutes because we were about 10 minutes late to start, but Angela has informed me that we have to be done by one o'clock. That's why we wrapped up some of the questions.
Greg, I know you had your hand up again. I apologize for that. We will try to get started on time next time, and that will leave a little bit more time.
My question is to everyone: Does the committee wish to report to the House that it has considered the certificate of nomination of Karen Hogan for the permanent position of Auditor General of Canada and reports its recommendation that she be confirmed by the House of Commons as Canada's 16th Auditor General?
Is there any discussion on this? We still have about five minutes. I see a thumbs-up from Mr. Longfield and Mr. Sorbara.
Mr. Green, did you want to comment?
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Yes. I want to go back on the record to confirm that this is already a fait accompli. In fact, this committee doesn't really have any kind of authority to stop this appointment. I just want to put that on the record.
Can I get a confirmation in the affirmative?
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
I'm going to suggest that if we wanted to hold it up, anything's possible. As I said, at the end of the day, we do have a say in this. I don't know where it would go from here. I could ask one of the analysts if that were the case.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
If I may, Mr. Chair, just on Mr. Green's point of wishing to be on the record, so to speak, there is no record right now. We are in camera. Isn't that correct?
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Fair enough.
Mr. Green is correct, in that what passes for consultation is the government informing party leaders of a single candidate, and then the committee merely has the opportunity to weigh the qualifications of that single candidate.
I'm not sure I need to make a huge deal of it right now, but Mr. Green is absolutely correct.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Okay. That's so noted as well.
Dillan, did you want to add anything quickly to that?
1:05 p.m.
Dillan Theckedath Committee Analyst
Chair, thank you very much, and good afternoon to the committee members.
I only wanted to confirm. We have been messaging the chair throughout the meeting with the limited means available to try to communicate the number. If there is a formal statement that the committee makes to the House, we will just confirm that number with you. We told you that if Ms. Hogan is appointed, she would be the 16th Auditor General. However, she would be the 13th permanently appointed Auditor General.
Maybe Angela can look into the specific technicalities of what that statement you read needs to say. We would be happy to provide the research we gave to you, if Angela needs it as well.
André and I were it looking up. We've contacted the OAG and were using the library's database throughout the meeting, to make sure that the statement you refer to the House, Chair, reflects the technical statement.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Absolutely. I think it was the 13th permanent and maybe the 16th in total.
Are there any other comments?
Thank you very much, Mr. Green and Mr. Kelly. Your comments on this are duly noted in terms of the process.
Are we all in favour of confirming Ms. Hogan as our new Auditor General? I see a bunch of thumbs-up. Okay.
May 19th, 2020 / 1:05 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Angela Crandall
Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt.
According to the motion that allows this committee to meet, any decision we take has to be via recorded decision. Therefore, if the committee's ready to vote now, I'll call the vote.
1:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
That would be great. Thanks, Angela.
(Motion agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0)
1:05 p.m.
The Clerk
Mr. Chair, the vote is unanimous.