Evidence of meeting #25 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was long-term.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
No, I'm afraid your time is up. I'm sorry.
Ms. Sinclair‑Desgagné now has the floor for two and a half minutes.
11:50 a.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to begin by saying that I support what my NDP colleague said. The fact that delays have become the norm feeds into the cynicism of the departments and the distrust of first nations communities have of the federal government. I find this really unfortunate.
The final report isn't due until 2026, but you had agreed to submit a status report by March 31, 2022. As you mentioned, what we received was a letter on June 9. The status report was to include objectives, results and deadlines to achieve a concrete objective and results in 2026. Unfortunately, none of that is in the letter. You say that the letter was more complete, but that's not at all what we see, unfortunately.
Even when we ask for follow‑up and when we look more closely at what Indigenous Services Canada is doing, we realize that there is a delay and that we can't even get answers to questions from members of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.
How do you explain this, Ms. Fox?
11:55 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Indeed, the department is focused on the transparency of its results. On our public website, we have posted all the investments, all the current advisories and their status in order to be transparent. We've referenced that in the report, but if anything is missing, we will be happy to follow up to provide more documentation or information.
11:55 a.m.
Bloc
Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné Bloc Terrebonne, QC
What have you done in the past year, since 2021? Since we submitted this report and the recommendations were accepted, what concrete deadlines have been put in place, for infrastructure plans, for example?
Even on the website there is nothing about this. There are numbers, but they don't guarantee results, as my colleague said.
What have you done in the past year?
11:55 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
We have done a lot of work on infrastructure plans, which aren't just related to drinking water. We've implemented an action plan for each community based on their infrastructure priorities.
In addition, we've done work to modernize our infrastructure efforts. There's information on the website. We can certainly provide documentation on the results in education, health centres, and housing. This information is updated very regularly.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes, please.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I want to thank my colleagues for providing good answers. I think that helped to remedy some of my questions, particularly the comments from the Bloc.
Related to the mistrust aspect, I want to make sure, on the record, that we have a full understanding that when indigenous communities bring these concerns forward, just like I am, they're met with almost identical.... It's the exact-same response across the board. Canadians watching this. All they have to do is rewind to my last round of questioning to see how most indigenous people, when they bring up their frustrations, are treated. I'll leave it at that.
Now to the questions at hand, timelines are really important.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I have a point of order.
None of us doubt the passion of the member, and he certainly has added a great deal to the committee, that is for certain. To be clear, one cannot call a witness a liar at a committee meeting.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I didn't say that. You can go back, Peter. You can see it. I didn't say that.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
That's how I took it. The chair, obviously, called it out as well.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
If that wasn't your intent, fine. Clearly, there was something off.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
You're intending to say that to me now and trying to paint that picture.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Clearly, there was something off in terms of how you delivered it. Let's just be clear on that.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
I want you to be clear, because it's important that the record shows that it's very clear. I didn't say that.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Obviously, something was off if the chair called it out as well.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
John never said that. He never said that I called anyone a liar. He wanted me to use parliamentary language.
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Let me step in, Mr. Fragiskatos.
There was a ping, Mr. Desjarlais, that if you were not over the line, you were very close to it. I understand your frustration. You've always conducted yourself at this committee with both passion and a very good nature. I believe that will continue.
Throwing the word “lie” out there is not parliamentary language. Your correction on that was appreciated. I would ask that you would just maintain the decorum you always have, and we would continue with the questions.
I know everyone around this committee room is seized with this issue. Canadians across the country think it is outrageous, as you do. We might lack the personal experience that you embody and bring to this table. The fact that we have the deputy minister here, answering questions, is a testament to the government's commitment to this on behalf of all Canadians.
I would just ask you not impute motive on the deputy minister and conduct yourself as you always have.
I thought we'd moved off from that last point. I hope we continue to do that.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
In order to preserve my time and be able to have a response, I think that's fair.
My response to you, honourable chair, is the fact that the Auditor General is sitting right here. We could talk about GBA+. This is one of those areas that parliamentarians actually have to learn something about. There has to be some understanding of the systemic barriers that are facing indigenous peoples in this place.
Being able to simply just address the reality that, when you have a commitment from December 21 to first nations people who could die from not having clean water...you find some language to interpret that, then.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
I do. That's why I'm doing everything I can to give you a lot of latitude.
I can understand, when governments of all stripes make commitments and don't fulfill them, how that is perceived by first nations communities, as well as Canadians across the country.