Public Safety Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2006

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

There are three levels of government. I think it only appropriate that we not leave any out, so maybe we need to think about how the provincial aspect works into this.

It's true that municipalities do usually end up first, but if we look at some of the recent disasters, Katrina being one, the question is how we make sure that all three levels of government have an apparatus with which people feel comfortable, and that there's a smooth operation, as opposed to.... It's who has authority over what, and when, and all those things. We want to make sure that Bill C-12 adds to a sense of comfort, rather than adding another layer of bureaucracy that will only make things worse.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes, Mr. MacKenzie.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

My colleague is absolutely right, but I think in this case there have been federal-provincial discussions with respect to Bill C-12. If we were to get somebody from the provincial authorities, we'd end up having to do the ten provinces and the territories and we could go on a long time.

With this bill in its reincarnation there were some issues with Quebec, I believe, and they've been addressed. It's a very good point that my colleague has, but I think we would spend a great deal of time to find out that they have already been part of the discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I'd like to add that we dropped the cap on the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. With the vulnerability of the petroleum industry in Canada--pipelines and refineries and so on--I think it's probably worth while to put that on as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Comartin.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

If we're going to bring the petroleum people in, we better bring the nuclear people in too.

Just going back to the issue that Mr. Norlock raised, I think it's a good one. Could we have someone--perhaps the parliamentary secretary could arrange this--who would give us a summary of the interaction between the federal government and the provinces and territories so we are brought up to date? I know there are concerns from Quebec. This would give us an indication as to whether there are any residual concerns from the provincial level. I would like to hear that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Okay--for Thursday, yes.

I think we're looking at a couple of meetings, then, one Thursday with the officials from the department and then maybe have some of these groups for a meeting, not next week but the following week. That would pretty well take care of the witnesses.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I don't know if we will be here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

No, I meant the week after the break. That would finish all of the witnesses for Bill C-12 and we can have three to four groups at the same time for a two-hour meeting.

Those two issues are taken care of, and the Tanzanian delegation is taken care of. The other thing that was on the list here is estimates. We have to do that before November 10. Could we just allow the clerk to schedule that in?

Yes?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Given the deadline, I think you're probably going to find, Mr. Chair, that we're going to have to intersperse the estimates with Bill C-12.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

That was my suggestion, that we let the clerk see when these other people can come.

The clerk would like to know who she's inviting with regard to the estimates. Who are we suggesting should appear before this committee on the estimates?

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I would still like to have the minister back, given that we've had this change with regard to the gun registry. I think there are a couple of other items--I haven't had time to go through entirely the announcements last week on the cuts--but there are a couple of others the minister is responsible for. The other one would be somebody from the RCMP, which is now responsible for the gun registry.

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but given the cuts, I don't know if it's the Treasury Board chair who should be coming in. I don't really care, I just want a minister here to speak to those cuts on the gun registry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We'll ask the Minister of Public Safety to come.

Are there any other items?

Mr. Holland, you had the issue of the arming of border guards, and we still have about eight minutes. Would you like to discuss something with regard to that?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I had a list of witnesses, and the list was more exhaustive than probably is necessary. I also recognize that some others may want to put forward names.

I know, Mr. Brown, you had a name or two that you were suggesting that you would like to see added. Really, all I am looking to do is to get a confirmation of which list we wanted to go with and then an agreement that once we're finished with the items we've just agreed on and will be dealing with in the immediate term, this would be something we would deal with thereafter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

At this point it looks like we're going to have a pretty full schedule for the next month or so.

First of all, do we agree that we want to do a study on the arming of border guards? How does this committee feel about that? Are there any comments?

Not hearing any dissenting opinions, we're going to go ahead with that. Then maybe in the next couple of weeks everybody can submit names as far as the witness list would be concerned. In about a month we can get together. I don't think we're going to have time for about a month, at least, to deal with this.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

The first meetings probably will be about a month away, given what we've put on our plate, and I don't have a problem with that. Perhaps we could make the job of the clerk easier, and in a couple of weeks' time agree on the witness list. That would give the clerk a couple of weeks to schedule those individuals instead of leaving it to the last minute and having the clerk running around trying to schedule.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Okay, let's leave it at that. Submit your names for a witness list with regard to the issue of arming the border guards.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

And we'll firm up with that list of witnesses when we return from the break. Is that a good plan?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Sure.

There are a couple of other possible items. Mr. Rosen had told us about a conference that is taking place here in Ottawa. How do we want to deal with that? It's not on the Hill; it's two blocks away. It would mean we'd have to have travel approved. This conference on terrorism is October 26.

Mr. Rosen, do you have any comments with regard to that?

[Philip Rosen]

My recollection is that it's a Thursday, Friday, and a Saturday morning. I think it's at the Crowne Plaza Hotel. I'm going from memory here. The Canadian Association for Security and Intelligence Studies is Canada's national organization of practitioners and academic lawyers and so on who are involved in security and intelligence issues. It's been in existence for about twenty years and has an annual conference. This year it's here. There will be a particular focus on the follow-up to the Arar commission recommendations. From that perspective it may be of interest to members. As the chair said, it's not very far away. Also, the registration fee, I suspect, is nothing more than about $200, which in conference terms these days is not very much. Certainly your staff would be interested in going if members aren't able to go.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

The clerk has just informed me that if any of you would like to go, you could inform the clerk and she could prepare a budget.

I would like to suggest this committee approve that our staff attend. They would then be able to brief those of us who are not able to go, or at least help us in further deliberations with this committee, with any information they may be able to glean from that conference.

Would you be willing to approve that fees be paid for our staff to attend? Are there any problems with that? Okay, I seem to see consensus for that around the table.

If there is no further business, I will adjourn this meeting.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

There is Mr. Ménard's travel with respect to Quebec.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

We have that trip that we'll have to schedule sometime. I don't know....

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Which trip is this? I'm sorry.