Public Safety Committee on May 4th, 2010

[Chief Rick Hanson]

I couldn't explain why that would be. I can tell you that our concentration, over the last, certainly, two and a half years, with the gang problems we've had, is focusing on the criminal behaviours.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay.

With regard to the suggestion, Mr. Mukherjee or Ms. Allison-Burra, that we set up regional or maybe province-based registries, can you comment as to what you think are the chances of that happening across the country, in terms of getting enough money to do it on a provincial or a regional basis?

[Dr. Alok Mukherjee]

It's a question that we haven't looked at because our view has been that the way the registry functions right now has been quite useful and relevant. However, at the same time, as we have said in our presentation, we are perfectly willing to acknowledge that there may be room for improvement. If, in the collective opinion, it was felt that regional registries might work better, we would be supportive of that.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Chief Hanson, in regard to the changes you would like to see, it sounds like the Alberta Association of Chiefs of Police wants to have improvements—certainly, decriminalization of the recreational guns. This is a proposal, by the way, that both my party and the Liberals are pushing, but it does not show up in this bill or in any government position. Would that be sufficient to get your association onside to continue to support the national registration?

I know you want more than that, but would that be enough?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

I would have to say that I can't speak on behalf of the entire Alberta association on whether that would be enough, because what we called for, I believe, also, was a review of all the components, to leave what works and take out what doesn't work. Certainly, a key piece would be that part about decriminalizing it.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

You have one and a quarter minutes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

We can deal with the streamlining.

Mr. Cheliak, could you answer this as well? What are you actually looking at in terms of streamlining?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

I know there have been inroads into streamlining it, but there are also multiple stories out there, personal examples from people, from many police officers, as a matter of fact, who have their own personal stories about how they haven't seen the benefit of that.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Superintendent Cheliak or Commissioner Sweeney, are there any additional steps being taken by the RCMP to streamline it, to make it even more efficient?

[D/Commr William Sweeney]

Absolutely. A continuous improvement has to be a constant state of affairs in policing. One of the significant initiatives Chief Superintendent Cheliak has undertaken is to provide better analytical reports that better serve chiefs and front-line officers, on the information that currently is collected within the data bank.

I will relate our early experience with FINTRAC. We would receive a lot of information from the agency that didn't allow police officers to capitalize on the full value of that information. I have to say that this has been a problem with the registry, but that is an issue that we should be working with our chiefs right across the country to resolve. In fact, last summer, at our association, Chief Superintendent Cheliak presented to the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, and as a consequence, an ad hoc committee has been created, in fact, to try to find these efficiencies that better serve our men and women on the front line.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you.

We'll now move over to the government side.

Mr. MacKenzie, please.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the members who are here, because we do recognize it's an important issue.

I would like to let everyone know that our time is constrained, not because the government side decided to constrain the time.

Having said that, Ms. Senior, I wonder if you could tell Canadians the difference between registration of long guns and licensing.

[Paulette Senior]

The YWCA is most concerned about saving women's lives. That's the perspective from which we speak. That is the experience we have, and it is an experience that goes across the country. What we have noticed in terms of statistics is that since the gun registry has been in place, women--

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Do you know about Bill C-17 and when it came in and what changes that brought to guns in Canada?

[Paulette Senior]

I'm here to speak about Bill C-391.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Okay. You're talking about changes that have occurred in Canada, and I ask you if you know about Bill C-17 and what changes that brought about to guns in Canada.

[Paulette Senior]

What I can say is that the YWCA of Canada will be supportive of a registry that provides information to law enforcers where they're able to identify if there are issues in the home that can save women's lives. That's where we come from.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Okay. I appreciate that.

Chief Hanson, from one old chief to a young chief, when a police officer uses the information in the registry on a domestic, let's say, and the registry says there are three guns and the officer has made a decision to remove the firearms, what does he do when he's found the third gun, the firearm?

[Chief Rick Hanson]

When our officers go into any kind of dangerous situation, they make an assumption that there are going to be weapons there. When they go in to do a search, they wouldn't assume that if the registry says three weapons, there are three weapons. If they're going to do a proper search, they'd search until they were satisfied that any weapons were recovered.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

That would indicate they don't trust the registry.

[Chief Rick Hanson]

It indicates that criminals don't use the registry, and you don't know who you're dealing with, so you err on the side of caution.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

I appreciate that.

Mr. Chair, if I have time left, I'd like to share it with my colleague, Mr. Rathgeber.

Mr. Mukherjee, you're from the Metro Toronto Police Commission. We've met before, and I appreciate your being here. One of your former chiefs and the current commissioner of the OPP said:

...a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered...the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives.

Would you have agreed with Chief Fantino when he made that statement?

[Dr. Alok Mukherjee]

I've the greatest respect for Commissioner Fantino, and he's entitled to his view.

We are here because we believe the registry performs an important function and the money spent on it is money that's spent profitably. We get value for the money.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

We believe that the time and energy is better spent in licensing. We agree with that. We believe in gun control. The difficulty is we're not seeing the benefits of the registry.

Anyway, I'd like to share my time, through you, Chair, if I could.