Evidence of meeting #18 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearm.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Alexa Conradi  President, Fédération des femmes du Québec
Manon Monastesse  Director, Fédération de ressources d'hébergement pour femmes violentées et en difficulté du Québec, Fédération des femmes du Québec
Charles Momy  President, Canadian Police Association
Nadine Teeft  Detective Constable, Organized Crime Enforcement, Gun and Gang Task Force, Toronto Police Services, Canadian Police Association
John Edzerza  Member of the Legislative Assembly, McIntyre-Takhini, and Minister of Environment, Government of Yukon
Bob Rich  Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department
Brian Rahilly  Spokesperson, Dawson College Committee for Gun Control
Alan Drummond  Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians
Carolyn Snider  Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians

5:05 p.m.

President, Canadian Police Association

Charles Momy

Absolutely.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Kania Liberal Brampton West, ON

Let's take domestic violence. Long guns are used, as we know, predominantly in domestic violence situations. I'll give you the same concrete example. If a police officer goes in and there are threats, they know that they have to do something to protect the family members. If the registry shows them that there are 13 guns and they have found only 10, the same things apply: they will continue to keep looking in those circumstances to protect the family, because they know to look for at least three more. Isn't that right?

5:05 p.m.

President, Canadian Police Association

Charles Momy

Absolutely. In fact, there's one example I provided in the package to the committee as well. It's about a specific scenario such as the one you indicate. A family believed that the father, who was suicidal, only had 13 guns, but the reality was that he had 21 guns. It was only through the registry that police officers actually found that out. Again, once they found the 21 guns, they continued to search.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Mr. MacKenzie is next, please.

May 13th, 2010 / 5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Just for clarification—and perhaps, Chief Rich, you can confirm this—the amnesty does not eliminate the need for licensing. It only gives people the opportunity to register their guns without a fee being charged. Is that correct?

5:05 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

That's correct.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

So the amnesty is not a bad thing. As a matter of fact, it's intended to bring people into the system.

5:05 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

It's to bring them into the fold, absolutely; its intent is very good.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Okay. We've been registering handguns since the 1930s.

5:05 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

That's correct.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Your problem is handguns.

5:05 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

Yes, it is handguns and assault rifles that would be illegal in Canada.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

That's right.

My understanding is that the Beretta Cx4 Storm is actually a restricted weapon. Bill C-391 wouldn't apply to it because, being restricted, it would be in the registry of restricted firearms, if it is actually there.

5:05 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

Forgive me. I think it's simply a semi-automatic rifle that was legally registered and held by the gentleman who did the Dawson shooting.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Even if it is, it would be registered one way or another.

5:05 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

I'm sorry; I believe so, but I'm not going to pretend I'm the expert.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

That's fair enough, but one of the problems is that we're trying to make a registry of unrestricted weapons into some form of gun control. I think that by and large, most people would agree that only 50% are in that registry.

Would that, plus or minus, fit what you're...?

5:10 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't have the number. As I say, it's always difficult to come up with the number, but a huge percentage of long guns out there are not in our registry, and that's a significant problem.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

If it's going to cost us $4.1 million a year for the 50% that are in there, there has to be some significant cost to trying to bring the other 50% into the registry, and it's a lot more than $4.1 million.

5:10 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

Yes, and my guess is that if we were going to run a registry that was completely timely and accurate, it would be a lot more than $4.1 million as well.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Are you familiar with Bill C-17, which was brought in to deal with safe handling, safe storage, and FACs?

5:10 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

Not long before Bill C-68, Bill C-17 came into place. With the FACs, police officers interviewed people before licences were issued.

5:10 p.m.

Chief Constable, Abbotsford Police Department

Chief Bob Rich

That's correct.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON

That system has gone.