Public Safety Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Minister, I've read the report from the justice department calculating the cost of crime to this country as $70 billion. It's my recollection, and maybe you can help me, that's only the hard cost with respect to insurance costs and property losses. That doesn't include emotional toil on individuals.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

We'll now go back to Madam Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Head, I need more details. I asked for some information from Correctional Service Canada. I was told that the average sentence for male inmates was three years or less in 50% of cases. For women, in approximately 60% of cases it was three years and less.

Are these figures correct?

[Don Head]

Environ, oui. We're just in the process of updating those figures for the past year, and I can make those available to the committee.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

That would mean that for most women Bill C-59 will have very little impact, given that women have been given sentences of under three years.

[Don Head]

When the piece around Bill C-59 was included in C-39, we only looked at one slice of it. I'm not anticipating there's going to be a significant change. But as I mentioned earlier, we have not finalized the cost on C-59 because we're still finalizing the retrospective piece.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

So, it is wrong to say that this bill will have a significant impact on women.

[Don Head]

It will have the same impact that it does for men, for those who are eligible. We house smaller numbers of women anyway.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I understand that for men and women alike, the average length of their detention is three years and under, so, it has very little impact.

[Don Head]

Yes.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you.

So, again, we see that the Liberal Party, and specifically its leader, Mr. Ignatieff, misled the public by saying that Bill C-59 would have a considerable impact on women. I now know this to be false. Similarly, the NDP seemed to be spreading this misinformation to the public.

Did you want to say anything to this, Mr. Minister?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

If you're correct, as I understand it, the average sentence of a woman is much less than it is of a man, on average. Then the impact of Bill C-59 will be much less, given the way the calculations are done. On a count-to-count, individual-to-individual basis, on average it will not impact any more on women. If you're a woman who's been sentenced to ten years for a major fraud, it will impact the same way as it does on a man. There's no difference.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

So, men and women will be given equal treatment.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

That's right.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

What I gather from you, Mr. Head, is that in any event, with Bill C-59 day parole six months before a third of the person's sentence has been served would still apply, and the risk assessment is done globally, no longer based on re-offending for violent crime. That is what I understood from everything you said earlier.

[Don Head]

Not quite.... Individuals will still be eligible to apply for day parole and full parole. It's the rules that were associated with accelerated review that would disappear.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

There are some figures here I do not understand. According to an analysis by Mr. Page, the estimate of what it costs to keep a female inmate in jail is approximately $340,000 per year. Is that also the figure you have? That seems a little high to me.

[Don Head]

It is approximately $211,000 per year.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

So, it is not $340,000.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Madam Mourani.

Again, we want to thank Minister Toews and Commissioner Head for appearing before our committee today.

Seeing our time is up, the meeting is adjourned.

Thank you.